2024-05-06 Meeting notes



Discussion items

1 minScribeAll
Maccabee Levine followed by Craig McNally

Reminder:  Please copy/paste the Zoom chat into the notes.  If you miss it, this is saved along with the meeting recording, but having it here has benefits.

5-10 minLiaison Updates
  • CC: Maccabee Levine 
    • No update this week.
  • PC: Tod Olson
    • Discussion of the topics from China document and next steps
      • PC organizing smaller group to discuss with volunteers from the China community to better understand the issues.
      • Looking also for non-PC volunteers
    • Discussion of the State of FOLIO doc posted by CC
      • Many questions about intended audience, use(s) and reuse of the document
      • CC framing was about aligning the community
    • For both topics, see 2024-05-2 Product Council Meeting Notes for more detail
    • Should TC have a member reporting back from the "topics from China" group any Tri-Council groups, in general?
      • Consensus yes.  No other groups currently not represented.
  • RMS Group: Jakub Skoczen
    • Some Poppy issues coming up.  Quesnelia release details to be announced soon.
    • Jakub Skoczen Not sure what else we can do about TC's request about item on timeline.  Can ask Alexsii to put on the agenda again.
      • Jeremy Huff Should TC itself just edit that document, by lazy consensus?
      • Maccabee Levine Given what we are attempting is better communication, I prefer affirmative agreement.  Prefer to ask Jakub Skoczen to be the squeaky wheel to get it on the agenda.
      • Jakub Skoczen will try one more time to get it on the agenda.
  • Security Team: Craig McNally
    • No update, business as usual.
  • Tri-council Application Formalization: Jenn Colt
    • May cancel this week to allow people to attend TC Q&A on the same day.
    • Craig McNally Will need written answers to what he and VBar answered at the previous Q&A meeting.  Jenn Colt will do so.
5 minUpcoming MeetingsAll
  •  - Dedicated Discussion - Architectural PoC Q&A continued
  •  - Regular TC meeting
  •  - Dedicated Discussion - Topic TBA.  Several TC members will be at Code4Lib (Maccabee Levine Jenn Colt Tod Olson)
  •  - Regular TC meeting
  •  - Dedicated Discussion - Communicating Breaking Changes
  • 27 May 2024 - Regular TC 
  • 29 May 2024 - Alternate time meeting for China and Australia topics?
4 minTCR Board ReviewAll
10-15 min

Technical Council Sub-Groups Updates


  • TCR Update
    • Discussed earlier re: RMSG update.
  • Jeremy: a subgroup to be formed regarding static code analysis
  • Propose a Developer Documentation Subgroup. This group could include/work with the developer advocate.
5 minRFCs


  • Go Language
    • Jakub Skoczen needs to close Public Review phase.  Discuss next meeting about Final Review.
  • Application Formalization
    • Craig McNally Similar situation, comments to be resolved, but it has all the feedback it will get.  Address those comments and then move to Final Review.
  • Centralized vs Distributed configuration - Final Review we should choose a time for discussion
5 minAction ItemsJenn ColtTod OlsonJeremy Huff
  • Jenn Colt: Decision Log issues update - fixed, required re-publishing the pages
  • Tod OlsonFOLIO topics from the China community update from the PC
    • Main question is getting adequate TC representation on this group.
    • Jeremy Huff Wait and see what happens with PC's group, if they need technical perspective help, then put on our agenda in the future?
    • Tod Olson agrees.  Doesn't necessarily have to be TC members; just folks from the technical side of FOLIO.
  • Jeremy Huff:
    • WOLFCon Submission (Complete)
    • Advertise Communicating Breaking Changes PoC Demo update
1 minDecision LogAll

5 - 10 minGlobally Friendly MeetingAll

Should we propose a meeting schedule that includes some times that will work for people in all time zones?

  • Jenn Colt Try one meeting like that before committing to a regular schedule.
  • Tod Olson Do we know what timezones to target?
  • Jeremy Huff China and Australia likely candidates who we'd like to see participating.  So if they are available at the timeslot PC selected, go with that?  Or try something different to compare?
  • Tod Olson Since we're looking at Topics from China doc, do a similar time to be attractive to that audience.
  • Jeremy Huff Move a dedicated discussion to that timeslot?
    • Jenn Colt Application Formalization was the topic for that one, and was pressure.  Better to solicit the topic(s) from that group.  China we have topics; try to solicit topics from NLA as well.
  • Jeremy Huff Target 5/29 as target date for alternate timeslot.  Jeremy will reach out to both groups, solicit topics. 
    • Does 8pm ET work for people?  Generally yes for US people, no for Europe people.
    • Give it a go, see how it went.
  • Maccabee Levine A future timeslot could be friendly for Europe and China/Australia but not North America.
10-15Topic Backlog GroomingAll

After reaching out to the developer channel there were several topics suggested to the TC to investigate. We should review these topics and decide how/if they should be added to our topic backlog

  • API Linting, suggested by Pavlo Smahin on 4/17
    • Jeremy Huff Should TC dive into this one?
    • Jeremy Huff will take Pavlo's text and add to topic backlog.  Can refine in the future.
  • PR Templates, suggested by Azizbek Khushvakov on 4/18
    • 24 replies in the Slack thread.
    • Craig McNally We've had this discussion many times in the past without getting anywhere.  May be captured in notes from years back, but consensus then was that it was really up to individual teams to decide what they want to do.
    • Jeremy Huff Similar recollection.  Do like the idea of high-level guidance, or documenting best practices.  But not perscriptive.
    • Jeremy Huff will add to the topic backlog.  Even if our decision is to make more explicit i.e. decision record, should be friendly to folks who suggest we talk about something.  There might be half-measures to take in that direction.
  • Java 21, suggested by Azizbek Khushvakov
    • Craig McNally we will need to upgrade Java at some point, whether 21 or future version.  Can't live on 17 forever.
    • Jeremy Huff will add to future topics, or in context of OST
  • Kafka module mod-kafka, suggested by Mike Taylor on 4/30
    • Jeremy Huff This reads like an RFC.  Well-formed idea, the suggestion from TC may be to create an RFC.
    • Jeremy Huff will add this to the future topics backlog also.
Time Permitting

Officially Supported Technologies (OST)


Standing agenda item to review/discuss any requested or required changes to officially supported technology lists

NAZoom Chat

Topic Backlog

Decision Log ReviewAll

Review decisions that are in progress.  Can any of them be accepted?  rejected?

Translation SubgroupAllSince we're having trouble finding volunteers for a subgroup, maybe we can make progress during a dedicated discussion session?
Communicating Breaking ChangesAllCurrently there is a PoC, developed by Maccabee Levine, of a utility to catalog Github PRs that have been labeled with the "breaking change" label. We would like to get developer feedback on the feasibility of this label being used more often, and the usefulness of this utility. 
Officially Supported Technologies - UpkeepAll

Previous Notes:

  • A workflow for these pages. When do they transition from one state to another. Do we even need statuses at all ?

Stripes architecture group has some questions about the Poppy release.

Zak: A handshake between developers, dev ops and the TC. Who makes that decision and how do we pass along that knowledge ? E.g. changes in Nodes and in the UI boxes. How to communicate this ? We have a large number of teams, all have to be aware of it.  TC should be alerted that changes are happening. We have a couple of dedicated channels for that. Most dev ops have subscribed to these channels. How can dev ops folk raise issues to the next level of community awareness ? There hasn't been a specific piece of TC to move that along.

Craig: There is a fourth group, "Capacity Planning" or "Release Planning". Slack is the de facto communication channel.  There are no objections to using Slack. An example is the Java 17 RFC. 

Craig: The TC gets it on the agenda and we will discuss it. The TC gets the final say.

Marc Johnson: We shouldn’t use the DevOps Channel. The dev ops folks have made it clear that it should only be used for support requests made to them.

Jakub: Our responsibility is to avoid piling up technical debt.

Marc: Some set of people have to actually make the call. Who lowers the chequered flag ?

Craig: It needs to ultimately come to the TC at least for awareness. There is a missing piece. Capacity Planning needs to provide input here. 

Marc: Stakeholders / Capacity Planning could make that decision. Who makes the decision ? Is it the government or is it some parts of the body ?

Marc: the developers community, the dev ops community and sys ops are involved. For example the Spring Framework discussion or the Java 17 discussion. But it was completely separate to the TC decision. It is a coordination and communication effort.

Marc: Maybe the TC needs to let go that they are the decision makers so that they be a moderating group.

Jakub: I agree with Marc. But we are not a system operating group. Dependency management should be in the responsibility of Release management. There are structures in the project for that.

Jason Root: I agree with Jakub and with Marc also. Policies should drive operational/release/support aspects of Folio.

Jason Root: If the idea of “support” is that frameworks are supported, then of course the project should meet that.

Marc Johnson
Some group needs to inform OleksAii when a relevant policy event occurs.
These documents effectively ARE the manifestation of the policy.

Craig: This is a topic for the next Monday session.

Craig to see if Oleksii Petrenko could join us to discuss the process for updating the officially supported technologies lists.

Dev Documentation VisibilityAll

Possible topic/activity for a Wednesday session:


  • Ideas for the type of developer-facing documentation we think would be most helpful for new developers
  • How we might bring existing documentation up to date and ensure it's consistent 
  • etc.

Action Items