2024-11-13 Voting rules

Date

13 Nov 2024

Attendees

Discussion items

Time	Item	Who	Notes
1 min	Scribe	All	~~[Marc Johnson is next followed by Julian Ladisch]~~ Julian today, Marc next Reminder: Please copy/paste the Zoom chat into the notes. If you miss it, this is saved along with the meeting recording, but having it here has benefits.
60 min	TC Voting rules	All	Background: FOLIO governance provides no rules around voting: FOLIO Governance Model#TechnicalCouncil Voting norms are established by us here: Technical Council - Governance Decisions For comparison, product council rules are here: Product Council I couldn't find rules for Community Council Ingolf and Jason would like the same voting rules that other councils use. Maccabee points out that TC has agreed that Slack voting is allowed, but only after a possibility for discussion. Craig don't want to change the voting rules whenever the TC member changes. Jenn: Without Slack voting peope are motiviated to attend the meetings. Ingolf: Knowlegable abstention is quite different from an absent member not voting. Jakub: We might have a standard rule and the option that any member can request a higher quorum. Craig: If absent members sent a proxy we can keep the 7 votes rule. If a majority of a quorum decides this can be a small fraction of the TC; this seems odd for serious decisions. Marc: Some people have a problem to find a proxy. The chairs might designate a proxy if the member doesn't provides a proxy. Jakub: The quorum is needed to have a informed decision by getting feedback from all groups represented in the TC. Tod: A proxy can not only be from the same organisation, it can be another TC member or a person from a different organisation. And Slack voting should be allowed. There are different opinions whether Slack voting slows down the decision making. Do we want Slack only voting, or Slack voting as a fallback when we don't reach a quorum/majority in the meeting. An abstention can cause a loss of a quorum, this is more powerful than a no, but as powerful as an absent. See page comment below for conclusions and proposal.
	Zoom Chat		00:03:09 Jenn Colt: https://folio-org.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/TC/pages/608829441/2024-11-13+Voting+rules 00:03:16 Maccabee Levine: I have to head out at the 45m mark. Hopefully this discussion will not take 45m anyway :) 00:04:09 Charlotte Whitt: Wouldnâ€™t it make sense to have consistent voting rules for CC, PC and TC? 00:04:18 Ingolf Kuss: Reacted to "Wouldnâ€™t it make sen..." with ðŸ‘ 00:07:35 Charlotte Whitt: + 1 Tod 00:11:25 Ingolf Kuss: I think a knowledgeable abstention must count as a vote. 00:12:59 Charlotte Whitt: But now Abstention and No in praxis count as the same. That should not be the intention with the TC voting rules 00:13:51 Ingolf Kuss: I think everyone who is elected must have a Chance to vote. Let's set a period of vote (until the next regular TC Meetings) to allow for Slack votes. 00:14:50 Craig McNally: Maybe we need to reiterate that members should send a proxy when they cannot attend meetings. 00:16:14 Ingolf Kuss: I don't know who to raise Hand due to a new Version of Zoom which I have just downloaded (therefore I type). 00:16:14 Marc Johnson: Majority wins, after a quorum has been achieved, is how some decisions have been made by the TC in the past 00:16:54 Ingolf Kuss: Replying to "But now Abstention a..." That would mean e.g.: 11 elected. 2 obstain. 5 vote with yes ==> accepted. 00:18:05 Ingolf Kuss: Replying to "But now Abstention a..." I could agree with that as Long as an abstention is different from "not Voting". 00:21:20 Ingolf Kuss: I think we Always have to give those who can not attend a Meeting a Chance. If only 6 attend Zoom, we should give the other 5 the Chance to vote by slack. If 4 out of 6 attending vote with "yes", this is not sufficient, i.m.o. There should be 2 additional "yeses" by Slack in order to pass the proposal. 00:27:59 Ingolf Kuss: The proxies I send are usually not from my institution... 00:29:22 Jenn Colt: Are abstentions votes cast? 00:29:35 Charlotte Whitt: It should then be majority of votes. Otherwise are abstentions counting as a no 00:31:03 Charlotte Whitt: + 1 Ingolf 00:31:37 Tod Olson: Abstention is declaring a non-vote. An abstention is not explicitly participating. 00:31:49 Charlotte Whitt: Reacted to "Abstention is declar..." with ðŸ’¯ 00:33:04 Craig McNally: Let's be clear... slack voting will slow things down. 00:36:26 Ingolf Kuss: another example: 11 people. 4 don't react within one week (not even on Slack, not even a proxy). => 7 participate. We have a quorum. 4 vote with yes => proposal has passed . I would be fine with that. 00:36:29 Julian Ladisch: Slack voting can be faster. The last missing vote can be made withing a day after the meeting. 00:36:36 Maccabee Levine: Reacted to "Slack voting can be ..." with ðŸ‘ðŸ» 00:37:10 Tod Olson: Reacted to "Slack voting can be ..." with ðŸ‘ðŸ» 00:37:35 Ingolf Kuss: If 2 from the 7 who participate abstain, the proposal will pass with only 3 "yeses". 00:40:31 Ingolf Kuss: I think we should use this always. 00:40:40 Charlotte Whitt: With your 6th bullet point Jenn 00:41:19 Charlotte Whitt: Then abstentions - do have an influence on the count of votes. Is this the intention? 00:45:07 Charlotte Whitt: If you are an elected member of the given council, then you should be able to vote Yes or No - so why not skip the use of abstentions 00:45:18 Tod Olson: Take a look at the Robert's FAQ, #6 Do abstention votes count? https://robertsrules.com/frequently-asked-questions/ 00:47:42 Maccabee Levine: We have 'no' votes way more often than the other councils. 00:49:26 Maccabee Levine: Sorry folks have to drop off. 00:49:37 Jason Root: Reacted to "We have 'no' votes w..." with ðŸ‘ 00:49:56 Jason Root: Reacted to "Sorry folks have to ..." with ðŸ‘‹ 00:54:19 Charlotte Whitt: Using Slack would be aligned with that we want the FOLIO project to be a project being able to work asynchronous 00:56:27 Ingolf Kuss: Hat auf "Using Slack would ..." mit ðŸ’¯ reagiert 01:00:27 Jason Root: Reacted to "Using Slack would be..." with ðŸ’¯ 01:01:37 Tod Olson: I need to drop off. FYI, I will be out of the office the next two weeks.