2024-02-05 Meeting notes



Discussion items

1 minScribeAll

Maccabee Levine is next, followed by Tod Olson

Reminder:  Please copy/paste the Zoom chat into the notes.  If you miss it, this is saved along with the meeting recording, but having it here has benefits.

5-10 minLiaison Updates
  • CC: Maccabee Levine
    • No CC meeting this week
  • PC: Tod Olson 
    • Updates on Data import:
      • ARLEF: still a pain point, collecting updates: How much was solved, from our perspective? what’s still an issue? What are midterm work-arounds?
      • DI Working group: Trying to lift some load from PO; WG looking at documenting issues in transparent way, documenting functionality, administrative help (e.g. note taking so PO doesn't have to.); weekly updates to MM SIG.
      • General updates on functionality: focus on performance/reliability/stability, in progress;
        • Poppy improvements: data slicing, log improvements, update/create multiple holdings and items.
      • Possibility of PO-level assistant for some feature set, like Resource Access SIG has sub-POs.
  • RMS Group: Jakub Skoczen 
  • Security Team: Craig McNally No updates, triaging issues.
    • No important updates - business as usual
  • Tri-council Application Formalization: Jenn Colt 
    • Discussed how development teams collaborate, esp. smaller dev teams.  Would be interested in hearing from teams.
10 minTCR Board Review


1 minUpcoming MeetingsAll
  • - Dedicated Topic Discussion - Ramsons Page moving from DRAFT to ACCEPTED soon
  •  - Regular TC Meeting
5-10 min

Technical Council Sub Groups Updates


Quick updates only.  If we can't find volunteers for groups, we'll need to add the topic to our backlog and address it during dedicated discussion sessions.

Distributed / Centralized Config

Communicating Breaking Changes


TCR Process Improvements

  • Work done, ready to merge.  Then subgroup has work after.
  • Maccabee Levine will merge.
10 minRFCs


RFC Process Improvements:

  • We need another RFC to update the metadata retroactively to reflect the new or adjusted statuses. - Jenn Colt
1-5 min

Postgres Messaging


The announcements were made before the holidays.  No objections. Probably need to ask testing people explicitly. 

See: DR-000038 - PostgreSQL Upgrade to 16


1 minDecision LogAll

Standing agenda item... is there anything in the decision log requiring attention?

Time Permitting

Officially Supported Technologies (OST)


Standing agenda item to review/discuss any requested or required changes to officially supported technology lists

  • Check in on progress... does anything else require attention?
  • Next Important Milestone:  Review Ramsons (3rd party dependencies) and move from DRAFT → ACCEPTED by  
    • Maybe we should aim to start looking at this on so we have time for discussion/adjustments
  • Notes from this meeting:
    • Maccabee Levine described updates to the process examples and walked through the example with Craig McNally who raised minor amendments
    • Marc Johnson suggested that there will only be 2 releases in 2024. Owen Stephens  and Craig McNally asked if anyone was aware of an official announcement on this
    • Craig McNally asked when there would be 4 active flower releases? Marc Johnson advised that there will be 4 releases when the previous 2 are in support, the current one is being released (and has not become generally available) and the next release has started development (after the feature freeze for the current release)
    • Marc Johnson shared the draft inclusion of policy decisions and reasoning for each type of technology in the Ramsons OST page
      • Craig McNally asked TC members to provide feedback on these changes


  • Marc Johnson last week fixed an OST example about timing at feature development freeze.
  • TCR Process Improvement PR now refers to "most recent ACTIVE" release.
  • Ramsons will move to ACCEPTED later this month 2/16.  So should start looking at it.
    • This means we have to now (by 2/16) nail down the third-party dependencies.
    • Need versions on FE languages.  Need FE review of FE build tools, etc.  Craig McNally flagged Zak Burke Yogesh Kumar on various parts of the page.
    • BE: No plans to move to new Java, Groovy.  Julian Ladisch made several wiki page comments on versions.
    • For "unspecified versions" items, we should not be listing versions?  Have to either adopt new policy or not.
  • We'll discuss this Wednesday.
  • Marc Johnson brief recap:
    • Three policies and reasons behind them.
      • Unspecified Versions. 
        • Dev teams take responsibility for using the latest version they can sensibly use.  Needs to be supported. 
        • TC doesn't dictate version because the version doesn't have to be aligned across modules.  It may be de facto aligned anyway, i.e. Vertx may be constrained by version of RAML Modules.  Similarly FOLIO Spring Base.  Or Stripes will dictate the version of React.
      • One of Specified Versions. 
        • Expect module developers to comply with one of the specified versions, i.e. Java 17 or 21.  The platform will support both.  Individual modules just need to run on one or the other.
      • All of Specified Versions. 
        • Modules are supposed to work with all of the specified versions.  I.e. Postgres during Quesnelia, modules have to work with 14-17.  At any one time it would only be run with one, but has to be able to run with any of them.
    • Allocation of each software to a policy depends how much project-wide alignment we need about that tool.  There is a reasoning statement for each one explaining why.
  • Craig McNally helpful to link to products' support pages so dev teams can see which versions are supported easily.  Not a blocker on Ramsons moving to ACCEPTED.
    • Marc Johnson agree
    • Everyone read to be able to discuss on Wednesday.
    • Glossary will be moved out of Ramsons page.  Maybe to a separate page or the OST homepage.
NAZoom Chat

Florian Gleixner 11:11 AM
cannot unmute

Jenn Colt to Everyone 11:13 AM
You have to acknowledge the recording notification before it will let you unmute
If you haven't

Florian Gleixner to Everyone 11:13 AM
now it works

Jenn Colt to Everyone 11:13 AM
It’s very annoying!

Tod Olson to Everyone 11:19 AM
Interested, but no capacity at the moment.

Jenn Colt to Everyone 11:23 AM
I’m pretty sure we discussed and decided not to set a number when we updated this

Marc Johnson to Everyone 11:23 AM
Why do we want to ask publicly for feedback prior to the public review?

Jenn Colt 11:50 AM
It makes sense on that OST ‘homepage’

Topic Backlog

Decision Log ReviewAll

Review decisions which are in progress.  Can any of them be accepted?  rejected?

Translation SubgroupAllSince we're having trouble finding volunteers for a subgroup, maybe we can make progress during a dedicated discussion session?
Communicating Breaking ChangesAllSince we're having trouble finding volunteers for a subgroup, maybe we can make progress during a dedicated discussion session?
Officially Supported Technologies - UpkeepAll

Previous Notes:

  • A workflow for these pages. When do they transition from one state to another. Do we even need statuses at all ?
  • Stripes architecture group has some questions about the Poppy release.
  • Zak: A handshake between developers, dev ops and the TC. Who makes that decision and how do we pass along that knowledge ? E.g. changes in Nodes and in the UI boxes. How to communicate this ? We have a large number of teams, all have to be aware of it.  TC should be alerted that changes are happening. We have a couple of dedicated channels for that. Most dev ops have subscribed to these channels. How can dev ops folk raise issues to the next level of community awareness ? There hasn't been a specific piece of TC to move that along.
  • Craig: There is a fourth group, "Capacity Planning" or "Release Planning". Slack is the de facto communication channel.  There are no objections to using Slack. An example is the Java 17 RFC. 
  • Craig: The TC gets it on the agenda and we will discuss it. The TC gets the final say.
  • Marc Johnson: We shouldn’t use the DevOps Channel. The dev ops folks have made it clear that it should only be used for support requests made to them.
  • Jakub: Our responsibility is to avoid piling up technical debt.
  • Marc: Some set of people have to actually make the call. Who lowers the chequered flag ?
  • Craig: It needs to ultimately come to the TC at least for awareness. There is a missing piece. Capacity Planning needs to provide input here. 
  • Marc: Stakeholders / Capacity Planning could make that decision. Who makes the decision ? Is it the government or is it some parts of the body ?
  • Marc: the developers community, the dev ops community and sys ops are involved. For example the Spring Framework discussion or the Java 17 discussion. But it was completely separate to the TC decision. It is a coordination and communication effort.
  • Marc: Maybe the TC needs to let go that they are the decision makers so that they be a moderating group.
  • Jakub: I agree with Marc. But we are not a system operating group. Dependency management should be in the responsibility of Release management. There are structures in the project for that.
  • Jason Root: I agree with Jakub and with Marc also. Policies should drive operational/release/support aspects of Folio.
  • Jason Root: If the idea of “support” is that frameworks are supported, then of course the project should meet that.
  • Marc Johnson
    Some group needs to inform OleksAii when a relevant policy event occurs.
    These documents effectively ARE the manifestation of the policy.
  • Craig: This is a topic for the next Monday session.
  • Craig to see if Oleksii Petrenko could join us to discuss the process for updating the officially supported technologies lists.

Dev Documentation VisibilityAll

Possible topic/activity for a Wednesday session:

  • Discuss/brainstorm:
    • Ideas for the type of developer-facing documentation we think would be most helpful for new developers
    • How we might bring existing documentation up to date and ensure it's consistent 
    • etc.

Action Items

  • TC members to review policy guidance in Ramsons OST page and provide feedback