2024-01-08 Meeting notes



Discussion items

-Welcome Back / CongratulationsAll

Welcome back everyone & happy New Year. 

Congratulations to Ankita Sen (smile)

1 minScribeAll

Jakub Skoczen is next, followed by Jenn Colt 

Reminder:  Please copy/paste the Zoom chat into the notes.  If you miss it, this is saved along with the meeting recording, but having it here has benefits.

10 minTCR Board Review


New submission:   TCR-33 - Getting issue details... STATUS

  • mod-batch-print submitted for evaluation, Jenn Colt volunteered for the review
5-10 minLiaison Updates
  • CC: Maccabee Levine
    • Summary in progress of the "Things that could be better about FOLIO" feedback from last fall, to be completed this month.  Discussion of the next steps, and a few process suggestions.  Co-chairs may discuss the process and priority items at the next meeting.
    • Will put links to these docs in the notes from the chat.
  • PC: Tod Olson - no PC meeting last week.
  • RMS Group: Jakub Skoczen No updates.
  • Security Team: Craig McNally No updates, triaging issues.
    • No important updates - business as usual
  • Tri-council Application Formalization: Jenn Colt  Things moving along but no concrete updates.
1 minUpcoming MeetingsAll
  • - Distributed Configuration to be presented by Florian Gleixner, Officially supported technologies
  • - Regular TC meeting CANCELLED (Holiday in the US)
  • - Regular TC meeting (instead of Monday 15th)
  • - Tri-Council meeting
    • discussion about collecting feedback from various groups (sysops, devs, etc)
    • Councils are expected to present feedback/thinking of various groups in the project (e.g TC from devs and sysops) but it's not always clear if that feedback is presented in full
5-10 min

Technical Council Sub Groups Updates


Quick updates only.  If we can't find volunteers for groups, we'll need to add the topic to our backlog and address it during dedicated discussion sessions.

  • distributed vs central configuration: Florian Gleixner has reworked the abstract and is preparing the document for a preliminary review. Planned for the 10th (topic for the Wednesday meeting)
  • comms breaking changes: convo on Slack regarding attracting more members, to be discussed on a special TC meeting
  • multi-lingual support: Craig McNally is planning updates for next week
  • TC improvement: more updates planned for the 17th
  • app formalization: more updates are planned for the 17th
*5 minRFCs


RFC Process Improvements:

  • We need another RFC to update the metadata retroactively to reflect the new or adjusted statuses.
    • Any volunteers?
    • Holding off on this for now - maybe someone will volunteer after the holidays.


1-5 min

Postgres Messaging


The announcements were made before the holidays.  Has anyone received questions / comments on this?  

  • Ingolf Kuss this has not been addressed at the sysops group yet
  • Craig McNally will bump the threads to try to get more feedback
1 minDecision LogAll

Standing agenda item... is there anything in the decision log requiring attention?

  • No updates; no new items
5-10 min

Officially Supported Technologies


Standing agenda item to review/discuss any requested or required changes to officially supported technology lists

  • Check in on progress... does anything else require attention?
  • Next Important Milestone:  Review Ramsons (3rd party dependencies) and move from DRAFT → ACCEPTED by  
    • Maybe we should aim to start looking at this on so we have time for discussion/adjustments.
  • Versions for the components:
    • Craig McNally should we try to address this before the mid-Feb deadline? We can start the convo on Weds after the presentation from Florian.
NAZoom Chat

Marc Johnson to Everyone (8 Jan 2024, 17.04)
3 weeks
Though we aren’t so close to a release threshold so it’s less pressured than usual
Jenn Colt to Everyone (8 Jan 2024, 17.05)
Marc Johnson to Everyone (8 Jan 2024, 17.06)
There were tickets filled for some request related modules being added to the reference environments
Owen Stephens to Everyone (8 Jan 2024, 17.06)
Expecting to submit mod-serials-management / ui-serials-management soon to get through review in time for Quesnelia inclusion
Marc Johnson to Everyone (8 Jan 2024, 17.06)
I think that’s at least 2 back end modules
You to Everyone (8 Jan 2024, 17.08)
Can we get a link to this document (again) so I can put it in the notes?
Maccabee Levine to Everyone (8 Jan 2024, 17.14)
This is the full (but grouped) list of "things that could be better"  https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jqETlhc3x5-JLGrKYG0u3ppilVMefycbrSsXrBfr9WA/edit#heading=h.m83ixy3abjcu

Tom or I will share the "progress since 2022 list", as well as a summarized version of the above.  I'm checking with him on status of those docs.
Ingolf Kuss to Everyone (8 Jan 2024, 17.17)
I will collect feedback in SysOps SIG.
Jenn Colt to Everyone (8 Jan 2024, 17.39)
Sysops channel is really busy
Owen Stephens to Everyone (8 Jan 2024, 17.39)
What sort of feedback were you expecting?
It seems like the announcement is what it is - I don’t quite understand what I might have responded to the announcement

Topic Backlog

Decision Log ReviewAll

Review decisions which are in progress.  Can any of them be accepted?  rejected?

Translation SubgroupAllSince we're having trouble finding volunteers for a subgroup, maybe we can make progress during a dedicated discussion session?
Communicating Breaking ChangesAllSince we're having trouble finding volunteers for a subgroup, maybe we can make progress during a dedicated discussion session?
Officially Supported Technologies - UpkeepAll

Previous Notes:

  • A workflow for these pages. When do they transition from one state to another. Do we even need statuses at all ?
  • Stripes architecture group has some questions about the Poppy release.
  • Zak: A handshake between developers, dev ops and the TC. Who makes that decision and how do we pass along that knowledge ? E.g. changes in Nodes and in the UI boxes. How to communicate this ? We have a large number of teams, all have to be aware of it.  TC should be alerted that changes are happening. We have a couple of dedicated channels for that. Most dev ops have subscribed to these channels. How can dev ops folk raise issues to the next level of community awareness ? There hasn't been a specific piece of TC to move that along.
  • Craig: There is a fourth group, "Capacity Planning" or "Release Planning". Slack is the de facto communication channel.  There are no objections to using Slack. An example is the Java 17 RFC. 
  • Craig: The TC gets it on the agenda and we will discuss it. The TC gets the final say.
  • Marc Johnson: We shouldn’t use the DevOps Channel. The dev ops folks have made it clear that it should only be used for support requests made to them.
  • Jakub: Our responsibility is to avoid piling up technical debt.
  • Marc: Some set of people have to actually make the call. Who lowers the chequered flag ?
  • Craig: It needs to ultimately come to the TC at least for awareness. There is a missing piece. Capacity Planning needs to provide input here. 
  • Marc: Stakeholders / Capacity Planning could make that decision. Who makes the decision ? Is it the government or is it some parts of the body ?
  • Marc: the developers community, the dev ops community and sys ops are involved. For example the Spring Framework discussion or the Java 17 discussion. But it was completely separate to the TC decision. It is a coordination and communication effort.
  • Marc: Maybe the TC needs to let go that they are the decision makers so that they be a moderating group.
  • Jakub: I agree with Marc. But we are not a system operating group. Dependency management should be in the responsibility of Release management. There are structures in the project for that.
  • Jason Root: I agree with Jakub and with Marc also. Policies should drive operational/release/support aspects of Folio.
  • Jason Root: If the idea of “support” is that frameworks are supported, then of course the project should meet that.
  • Marc Johnson
    Some group needs to inform OleksAii when a relevant policy event occurs.
    These documents effectively ARE the manifestation of the policy.
  • Craig: This is a topic for the next Monday session.
  • Craig to see if Oleksii Petrenko could join us to discuss the process for updating the officially supported technologies lists.

Dev Documentation VisibilityAll

Possible topic/activity for a Wednesday session:

  • Discuss/brainstorm:
    • Ideas for the type of developer-facing documentation we think would be most helpful for new developers
    • How we might bring existing documentation up to date and ensure it's consistent 
    • etc.

Action Items