2023-03-08 Meeting notes: Status of Camunda work

Date

Mar 8, 2023

Housekeeping

• Convener and notes: @Martina Schildt

• Next meeting: Mar 6, 2023

Discussion items

1. Status of Camunda work developed by TAMU | @Jeremy Huff 

2. jere

Minutes

• Jeremy gives a tour of the current functionality

• use reporting dashboard for workflows | Camunda Cockpit

• different process definitions | graphical representations of workflows | read only

• Camunda integrates with LDP

• Camunda does API calls to FOLIO

• drive process using a command line tool: folio-workflow-cli | want to see a UI in the context of stripes

• Components currently are:

  • mod-workflow provides workflow interface

  • mod-camunda provides workflow engine interface

  • fw-registry

  • fw-cli runs alongside an instance of registry | sends requests to mod-workflow

• could be useful for people who use other workflow technology

• mod-camunda includes camunda | all built in

• there are ambitions to getting this into the flower releases | getting work trough evaluation process

• Maccabee in chat: Jeremy do you workflows include any human-mediated steps?  What is the UI / UX?

  • Jeremy: yes, spinning chair tasks | workflow pauses for asynchronous human feedback | currently no workflows implemented that do that, but part of initial design

• basic steps

  • building

  • activate

  • run/trigger workflow | manual or define triggers

  • monitor | camunda cockpit can be used here

• other trigger types

  • schedule trigger

  • event trigger

• we should

  • replace fw-registry and fw-cli with a graphical user interface

  • become compliant with FOLIO module acceptance criteria

  • implement exception handling strategy

  • increase test coverage

  • expanded tasks

    • processes, decissions, human tasks

    • batch tasks

  • kafka integration?

• Kristin: if you want this to become part of FOLIO would you need to license camunda?

  • Jeremy: camunda is open source (that's why it was selected as technology for this)

  • built into mod-camunda

• Owen: in other areas such as open search, kafka what's happened is: some team did it and that was the choice

  • having the choice here is great

  • on the other hand what we need here is the workflows

  • how do we move from "this can work" to "this is how we do it"?

    • Jeremy: need to get through evaluation process

    • having the choice is more labour intensive, that's why laid out design pattern

• Kristin: have use case that they want to use Prefect; could that work with mod-Camunda

• Owen: That seems like a good use case to describe and measure potential solutions against

• Jeremy: integrate worklfow engine to mod-workflow - work estimate 3-4 weeks for 2 developers | easy to do, but would require development

• if wanting to create a workflow you need to start creating JSON documents |  doing this is not fun | being a developer would help | that's why we need a UI

• the goal is to make it more accessible with UI set up

• Jenn: will you be able through UI to pass parameters?

  • Jeremy: yes, accepts predefined inouts, delivers the results via mail attachment

• Maccabee: have there been conversations with Sebastian on initial workflow thoughts

  • Jeremy: yes, a lot was based on conversations with him

• Jenn: does this deal with machine user?

  • Jeremy: yes, could work with specific user interacting with okapi | in theory

• Martina S.: What is the timeline for this being part of folio flower releases?

  • Jeremy: we are rather away from this < know that they want to work on it

• Maura in chat: Is this in the Folio GitHub?

  • initially yes, forked in TAMU to continue to work on it | not sure whether in sync

• Jenn in chat: If you were to spin up a team would it be just A&M or would you be able to take on help from others?

  • Jeremy: would love to take on help from others

• Martina S.: maybe we could find groups where we should market the work?

• Kristin: yes, we should take this to another level | had good discussions in this group

• Maccabee in chat: Lehigh might be interested in contributing to this development

• Jenn in chat: To be transparent I was thinking of arlef

• Owen in chat: I think some presentation on use cases as well would be really good - some support for actually getting this done

• Jenn in chat: I think we should also consider the intersection with data import and the gaps there this would fill

• Maura in chat: +1 Jenn

• Charlotte in chat: We might also would like to see the Camunda Work Flow module and the Dash Board module to interact

• Maura Byrne in chat: +1 Charlotte.  Definitely.

• Owen: use cases in ERM might have been different | functionality within app vs. functionality in workflow engine | look at where boundaries might lay < might work well for automating processes

  • what functionality might need to be in app?

  • would this help delievering needed functionality | could check e.g. in ERM | will discus with ERM dev and funding team

• Jeremy: Owen could meet with ERM folks at TAMU

• Maccabee in chat: Lehigh developed the Jira-based Purchase Request Platform that I think Owen is referring to.  There is definitely intersection between that kind of human-oriented workflow and what TAMU's work provides.

• Jeremy: modules could be leaner 

• Jenn: This is the thing I feel most excited about in FOLIO at the moment.

• Kristin: how do we raise awareness in project

  • Owen and Martina will have conversation with core ERM team

• will take it to PC | maybe would be good to out together some use cases in advance |this would be helped by adopting this

  • AI could summarize different workflow options

• Maura in: +1 Kristin

• Owen in chat: Yeah - that could be good I think Kristin

• Jenn Colt in chat: I think the work TAMU has put in to making a module shouldn’t be understated
  Vs those of us api=ing

• Charlotte Whitt in chat: + 1 Jenn

• Jenn in chat: Like I don’t think starting over should be it

• Maccabee in chat: Kristen++ There are gaps in FOLIO that require external solutions, that a workflow solution would help fill

• Dung-Lan in chat: +1 Maccabee & Kristin

Chat

18:15:32 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    Thanks Jeremy
18:17:21 Von  Maccabee Levine  an  Alle:
    Jeremy do you workflows include any human-mediated steps?  What is the UI / UX?
18:33:58 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    That seems like a good use case to describe and measure potential solutions against
18:35:18 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    “We were so worried about whether it could do, we never stopped to ask if we *should* do it” 🙂
18:37:28 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    You and I have different ideas of what’s fun Jeremy 🙂
18:42:11 Von  Jenn Colt  an  Alle:
    Even though we are currently using Prefect I would be really excited to see this going forward. I think we could probably port over our scripts
18:44:28 Von  Maura Byrne  an  Alle:
    Is this in the Folio GitHub?
18:46:32 Von  Jenn Colt  an  Alle:
    If you were to spin up a team would it be just A&M or would you be able to take on help from others?
18:47:52 Von  Maccabee Levine  an  Alle:
    Lehigh might be interested in contributing to this development
18:47:55 Von  Jenn Colt  an  Alle:
    To be transparent I was thinking of arlef
18:48:10 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    I think some presentation on use cases as well would be really good - some support for actually getting this done
18:48:40 Von  Jenn Colt  an  Alle:
    I think we should also consider the intersection with data import and the gaps there this would fill
18:48:52 Von  Maura Byrne  an  Alle:
    +1 Jenn
18:50:38 Von  Charlotte Whitt  an  Alle:
    We might also would like to see the Camunda Work Flow module and the Dash Board module to interact
18:50:58 Von  Maura Byrne  an  Alle:
    +1 Charlotte.  Definitely.
18:52:41 Von  Maccabee Levine  an  Alle:
    Lehigh developed the Jira-based Purchase Request Platform that I think Owen is referring to.  There is definitely intersection between that kind of human-oriented workflow and what TAMU's work provides.
18:54:27 Von  Jenn Colt  an  Alle:
    This is the thing I feel most excited about in FOLIO at the moment.
18:55:07 Von  Huff, Jeremy T  an  Alle:
    Reacted to "This is the thing I ..." with 👍
18:58:02 Von  Martina Schildt | VZG  an  Alle:
    +1 Owen
18:58:25 Von  Maura Byrne  an  Alle:
    +1 Kristin
18:58:26 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    Yeah - that could be good I think Kristin
18:58:35 Von  Laura Daniels  an  Alle:
    sorry, need to drop off -- thanks so much Jeremy
18:58:37 Von  Jenn Colt  an  Alle:
    I think the work TAMU has put in to making a module shouldn’t be understated
18:58:50 Von  Jenn Colt  an  Alle:
    Vs those of us api=ing
18:58:50 Von  Charlotte Whitt  an  Alle:
    + 1 Jenn
18:59:03 Von  Jenn Colt  an  Alle:
    Like I don’t think starting over should be it
18:59:08 Von  Martina Schildt | VZG  an  Alle:
    Reacted to "sorry, need to drop ..." with 👋
18:59:20 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    Reacted to "I think the work TAM..." with 👍
18:59:35 Von  Huff, Jeremy T  an  Alle:
    Reacted to "Like I don’t think s..." with 👏
18:59:46 Von  Maccabee Levine  an  Alle:
    Kristen++ There are gaps in FOLIO that require external solutions, that a workflow solution would help fill
19:00:32 Von  Dung-Lan Chen  an  Alle:
    +1 Maccabee & Kristin

Transcript

Future topics

• Topic proposal by @Owen Stephens for October:

  • Use of shortcut keys and macros for more effective cross-app working  - it also be good to have UX and Stripes/dev knowledge for this discussion I think. I know @Laura (she/they) uses macros so might have insights into the potential for cross-app working

• UX/UI and implementers topics

  • should be Wednesdays

• Comprehensive look at where data is copied and stored as opposed to live data | how it is represented

• Date filters and how they work in different apps

• Printing

Attendees

Action items