Date

03 May 2023

Housekeeping

Convener and notes: Martina Schildt
Next meeting: 08 May 2023

Discussion items

Implementers topics | Cross-app: UX/UI
1. UX/UI agreements across apps

Minutes

Warning Modals needed when deleting any record in any App when it is the source of truth for other records

To avoid dead links, or even disappearing records and information, when deleting a record to which other Apps link or connect or downstream display information regarding, a warning modal should appear informing the user that if they confirm the deletion then the following other records in such-and-such apps will be unlinked or deleted as well
relates maybe to cross-app data sync wg discussion | no solution found | it is impossible
- maybe possible for specific situations, but no general solution
  - user cannot delete license that is linked to a license
compromise: always have warnings before deleting? > no: users will feel differently whether warnings are helpful
best practices need to be defined app by app
we cannot add information on dependencies to records
maybe a workflow engine can help in future
- Laura in chat: is there any way that a workflow engine might help with this?
  Owen Stephens in chat: Possibly. If you decided to encode the rules for deletion in the workflow
  Laura in chat: that's what I was thinking... since dependencies may differ from institution to institution
common look in UI is helpful | need well defined error messages for records that rely on another record that was source of truth
- Charlotte in chat: In Inventory we have implemented warning messages when deleting holdings and item
Guidelines for warning messages would help
Soft delete would be a solution that would prevent workarounds | on the other hand there are situations where we really need to delete recoords (users app)
important: we develop FOLIO for users; at the moment users duplicate information to not loose anything
This group can define guidelines in a future meeting
concrete use case and discuss with MM and ACQ SIG > could be successful way > work from specific use case to hopefully general solution
use ticket: UXPROD-1647 - Getting issue details... STATUS

Wildcards (truncation marks) need to be standardized across all Apps > May 31st

Conveners will check with their SIGs on
- we want to use the same characters across apps
- whether there is anything that prevents alignment across apps (and why)
- holistic view

How Dates are formatted and entered

2022-05-10 vs 05/10/2022 and that the user must type the punctuation mark rather that system automatically supplying it as the user types as is standard in most systems and generally online when filling out forms etc.
user should be able to type in own locale, even without punctuation and get the correct date displayed
at least align across app
needed: list of expectations
Charlotte in chat: Is that a settings page; Ghost text in the entry boxes should be aligned with, the way the user has decided to specify dates
what should happen in export, reporting ...
Martina will create a wiki page to collect expectations, everyone makes own SIG aware of that page
Zak will take expectations to dev team

Next steps

Martina Schildt will create a wiki page to collect expectations on date entering and formatting 05 May 2023 DONE Date formatting
Re-discuss the ticket UXPROD-1647 - Getting issue details... STATUS in MM and ACQ SIGs > Martina Schildt to follow-up
ALL check with SIG members on whether there is anything that prevents alignment across apps on truncation 31 May 2023

Chat

18:03:15 Von Heather McMillan an Alle:
My first trip to DC was that time!
18:03:25 Von Owen Stephens an Alle:
I want to be there 🙂
18:03:27 Von Jana Freytag an Alle:
Mine too 😄
18:03:31 Von Heather McMillan an Alle:
I hope to be in Chicago
18:03:53 Von Owen Stephens an Alle:
I have family there so motivated to come!
18:04:45 Von Laura Daniels an Alle:
That is fantastic news!
18:04:58 Von Dung-Lan Chen an Alle:
Sounds very exciting!
18:04:59 Von Sara Colglazier (MHC/5C) an Alle:
@Martina, you often say: "Same procedure …." is this a play on _Dinner for One_? ;-)
18:05:19 Von Jana Freytag an Alle:
Reacted to "@Martina, you often ..." with 💯
18:05:37 Von Jana Freytag an Alle:
Reacted to "@Martina, you often ..." with 😁
18:12:49 Von Laura Daniels an Alle:
+1 to Zak's point
18:13:21 Von Laura Daniels an Alle:
We don't want to accidentally delete things, and we also don't want to have to say, "yes, I really meant that" all the time
18:20:28 Von Laura Daniels an Alle:
and we certainly can't necessarily anticipate which elements may be pulled into other apps in future
18:20:43 Von Maura Byrne an Alle:
Reacted to "and we certainly can..." with 👍
18:21:10 Von Dung-Lan Chen an Alle:
Having App or function specific deletion warning before the actual deletion can take place makes sense to me.
18:21:19 Von Laura Daniels an Alle:
is there any way that a workflow engine might help with this?
18:21:45 Von Owen Stephens an Alle:
Replying to "is there any way tha..."

Possibly. If you decided to encode the rules for deletion in the workflow
18:22:17 Von Laura Daniels an Alle:
Replying to "is there any way tha..."

that's what I was thinking... since dependencies may differ from institution to institution
18:23:30 Von Owen Stephens an Alle:
Reacted to "that's what I was th..." with 💯
18:24:58 Von Brooks Travis an Alle:
Apologies for being late to the party, but I want to take the opportunity to jump on my “soft delete” soapbox
18:25:03 Von Charlotte Whitt an Alle:
In Inventory we have implemented warning messages when deleting holdings and item
18:25:35 Von Charlotte Whitt an Alle:
But some guideline for how warnings messages should look like consistently would be great input to get
18:25:41 Von Brooks Travis an Alle:
Soft delete with dependency registration and reference tracking avoids this
18:27:16 Von Maura Byrne an Alle:
Reacted to "Soft delete with dep..." with 👍
18:27:52 Von Sara Colglazier (MHC/5C) an Alle:
Maura, was I understanding correctly, for example, App A has field X linked to App B, then I delete the record in App B, so in App A field X could now say: "I was a link that was deleted"
18:28:52 Von Maura Byrne an Alle:
Replying to "Maura, was I underst..."

Yes, something like that. Whatever works commonly across apps.
18:29:50 Von Brooks Travis an Alle:
I don’t think the soft delete approach precludes that, though.
18:30:05 Von Maura Byrne an Alle:
Reacted to "I don’t think the so..." with 👍
18:32:10 Von Maura Byrne an Alle:
Would there be a model that could be applied when things get deleted in apps?
18:33:24 Von Brooks Travis an Alle:
I don’t oppose the work to hard-code the dependency checks, per se. I just want to make sure that solving it more holistically doesn’t fall off the radar.
18:33:26 Von Charlotte Whitt an Alle:
+ 100 Zack Burke
18:33:33 Von Maura Byrne an Alle:
Reacted to "+ 100 Zack Burke" with 👍
18:35:08 Von Owen Stephens an Alle:
That’s true but it’s always balance and compromise. Some decisions were made early in the process that have pros and cons. This is definitely one of the cons although there are pros as well
18:35:21 Von Maura Byrne an Alle:
Reacted to "That’s true but it’s..." with 👍
18:35:42 Von Brooks Travis an Alle:
We also need to actually implement data sync so that we can store data locally where that makes sense, whether for for search or to have it in case the “source of truth” record is deleted.
18:36:31 Von Owen Stephens an Alle:
I feel very powerless having been through a long process to try to make this better and eventually making recommendations that haven’t been adopted because no one is doing it
18:36:48 Von Brooks Travis an Alle:
Agreed
18:37:47 Von Brooks Travis an Alle:
Fight forward! 🙂
18:37:53 Von Owen Stephens an Alle:
From my perspective pushing for this functionality in individual modules is the best bet for eventually a solution being adopted
18:38:02 Von Dung-Lan Chen an Alle:
I think staff in each functional group can voucher for what kind of warning is needed and must have before deletion of records can occur and there are some generally recognized principles that are accepted across the board … listening to those who are actually doing the work is important, too!
18:38:10 Von Owen Stephens an Alle:
Because that’s where the development resource is ultimately
18:38:52 Von Brooks Travis an Alle:
The inventory data sync into acq ever get implemented. I admit I haven’t kept track
18:39:08 Von Brooks Travis an Alle:
“Did the…?”
18:39:20 Von Owen Stephens an Alle:
That’s a good question Brooks
18:39:28 Von Dung-Lan Chen an Alle:
Acq PO shows up in Inventory
18:39:29 Von Maura Byrne an Alle:
Reacted to "“Did the…?”" with 👍
18:39:42 Von Maura Byrne an Alle:
Reacted to "I think staff in eac..." with 👍
18:39:53 Von Charlotte Whitt an Alle:
Yes, Acquisition is now populated in Inventory
18:39:56 Von Maura Byrne an Alle:
Reacted to "From my perspective ..." with 👍
18:40:07 Von Charlotte Whitt an Alle:
acquisition data …
18:40:08 Von Brooks Travis an Alle:
I’m talking about changes in inventory (eg. Moving items/holdings to a new instance, etc.) being reflected in the relevant records in acq (orders, etc.)
18:40:22 Von Brooks Travis an Alle:
That’s separate from display of relationship data in the UI.
18:40:35 Von Charlotte Whitt an Alle:
no move — is still limping along
18:41:14 Von Charlotte Whitt an Alle:
UXPROD-1647 … if I remember correct
18:43:50 Von Owen Stephens an Alle:
I’m afraid I’m going to have to drop off early today - apologies
18:44:51 Von Sara Colglazier (MHC/5C) an Alle:
$ also, I did not include it
18:46:31 Von Laura Daniels an Alle:
I think expectations are pretty much the same across domains
18:46:35 Von Owen Stephens an Alle:
Apologies - I’ve got to go. Sorry 🙁
18:46:40 Von Martina Schildt an Alle:
Reacted to "Apologies - I’ve got..." with 👋
18:46:42 Von Charlotte Whitt an Alle:
Reacted to "I think expectations..." with 👍🏻
18:46:43 Von Dung-Lan Chen an Alle:
Reacted to "I think expectations..." with 👍
18:48:28 Von Laura Daniels an Alle:
We have expectations around this well documented for Inventory, I'll look for where that is
18:48:46 Von Martina Schildt an Alle:
Reacted to "We have expectations..." with 🙏
18:48:51 Von Maura Byrne an Alle:
Reacted to "We have expectations..." with 👍
18:49:03 Von Maura Byrne an Alle:
Replying to "We have expectations..."

Awesome. I’d love to see it.
18:49:42 Von Laura Daniels an Alle:
Replying to "We have expectations..."

It's specifically around title searches: MSEARCH-463 - Getting issue details... STATUS
18:49:48 Von Brooks Travis an Alle:
All search in Perl regex only from here on out 😉
18:49:51 Von Laura Daniels an Alle:
Replying to "We have expectations..."

expectations are different for keyword searching though
18:50:09 Von Charlotte Whitt an Alle:
mod-search us *
18:50:31 Von Charlotte Whitt an Alle:
use * :-)
18:50:38 Von Maura Byrne an Alle:
Reacted to "All search in Perl r..." with 😃
18:50:42 Von Dung-Lan Chen an Alle:
Is there a list of wild card symbols used for order related apps?!
18:50:56 Von Charlotte Whitt an Alle:
Sarah’s post-it
18:51:41 Von Dung-Lan Chen an Alle:
Sara, can I borrow your post-it notes?
18:53:46 Von Laura Daniels an Alle:
Yes, Maura -- there's what we expect, and then there's what we can live/work with
18:54:20 Von Maura Byrne an Alle:
Replying to "Yes, Maura -- there'..."

I see it as fear of the curse of the Genie - you get what you ask for, but not what you want.
18:54:31 Von Laura Daniels an Alle:
Reacted to "I see it as fear of ..." with 💯
18:55:39 Von Maura Byrne an Alle:
💯 Zak
18:57:07 Von Charlotte Whitt an Alle:
Is that a settings page
18:58:23 Von Brooks Travis an Alle:
Adieu!
18:58:31 Von Martina Schildt an Alle:
Reacted to "Adieu!" with 👋
18:58:38 Von Charlotte Whitt an Alle:
Ghost text in the entry boxes should be aligned with, the way the user has decided to specify dates
19:00:47 Von Maura Byrne an Alle:
I think that’s a great idae.
19:00:51 Von Maura Byrne an Alle:
*idea
19:01:11 Von Jana Freytag an Alle:
👍

Attendees

Present	Name	Home Organization
	Ann-Marie Breaux	EBSCO
	Brooks Travis	EBSCO
x	Charlotte Whitt	Index Data
	Dennis Bridges	EBSCO
x	Dung-Lan Chen	Skidmore College
	Gill Osguthorpe	UX/UI Designer - K-Int
x	Heather McMillan Thoele	TAMU
	Ian Ibbotson	Developer Lead - K-Int
x	Jana Freytag	VZG, Göttingen
	Khalilah Gambrell	EBSCO
x	Kimberly Pamplin
	Kirstin Kemner-Heek	VZG, Göttingen
	Kristin Martin	Chicago
x	Laura Daniels	Cornell
	Lloyd Chittenden	Marmot Library Network
	Marc Johnson	K-Int
x	Martina Schildt	VZG, Göttingen
x	Martina Tumulla	hbz, Cologne
x	Maura Byrne	Chicago
	Mike Gorrell	Index Data
x	Owen Stephens	Product Owner - Owen Stephens Consulting
	Patty Wanninger	EBSCO
x	Sara Colglazier	Five Colleges / Mount Holyoke College Library
	Kimie Kester	EBSCO
	John Coburn	EBSCO
x	Zak Burke	EBSCO

Action items

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