2023-03-08 Meeting notes: Status of Camunda work
Date
Housekeeping
- Convener and notes: Martina Schildt
- Next meeting:
Discussion items
- Status of Camunda work developed by TAMU | Jeremy Huff
- jere
Minutes
- Jeremy gives a tour of the current functionality
- use reporting dashboard for workflows | Camunda Cockpit
- different process definitions | graphical representations of workflows | read only
- Camunda integrates with LDP
- Camunda does API calls to FOLIO
- drive process using a command line tool: folio-workflow-cli | want to see a UI in the context of stripes
- Components currently are:
- mod-workflow provides workflow interface
- mod-camunda provides workflow engine interface
- fw-registry
- fw-cli runs alongside an instance of registry | sends requests to mod-workflow
- could be useful for people who use other workflow technology
- mod-camunda includes camunda | all built in
- there are ambitions to getting this into the flower releases | getting work trough evaluation process
- Maccabee in chat: Jeremy do you workflows include any human-mediated steps? What is the UI / UX?
- Jeremy: yes, spinning chair tasks | workflow pauses for asynchronous human feedback | currently no workflows implemented that do that, but part of initial design
basic steps
- building
- activate
- run/trigger workflow | manual or define triggers
- monitor | camunda cockpit can be used here
- other trigger types
- schedule trigger
- event trigger
- we should
- replace fw-registry and fw-cli with a graphical user interface
- become compliant with FOLIO module acceptance criteria
- implement exception handling strategy
- increase test coverage
- expanded tasks
- processes, decissions, human tasks
- batch tasks
- kafka integration?
- Kristin: if you want this to become part of FOLIO would you need to license camunda?
- Jeremy: camunda is open source (that's why it was selected as technology for this)
- built into mod-camunda
- Owen: in other areas such as open search, kafka what's happened is: some team did it and that was the choice
- having the choice here is great
- on the other hand what we need here is the workflows
- how do we move from "this can work" to "this is how we do it"?
- Jeremy: need to get through evaluation process
- having the choice is more labour intensive, that's why laid out design pattern
- Kristin: have use case that they want to use Prefect; could that work with mod-Camunda
- Owen: That seems like a good use case to describe and measure potential solutions against
- Jeremy: integrate worklfow engine to mod-workflow - work estimate 3-4 weeks for 2 developers | easy to do, but would require development
- if wanting to create a workflow you need to start creating JSON documents | doing this is not fun | being a developer would help | that's why we need a UI
- the goal is to make it more accessible with UI set up
- Jenn: will you be able through UI to pass parameters?
- Jeremy: yes, accepts predefined inouts, delivers the results via mail attachment
- Maccabee: have there been conversations with Sebastian on initial workflow thoughts
- Jeremy: yes, a lot was based on conversations with him
- Jenn: does this deal with machine user?
- Jeremy: yes, could work with specific user interacting with okapi | in theory
- Martina S.: What is the timeline for this being part of folio flower releases?
- Jeremy: we are rather away from this < know that they want to work on it
- Maura in chat: Is this in the Folio GitHub?
- initially yes, forked in TAMU to continue to work on it | not sure whether in sync
- Jenn in chat: If you were to spin up a team would it be just A&M or would you be able to take on help from others?
- Jeremy: would love to take on help from others
- Martina S.: maybe we could find groups where we should market the work?
- Kristin: yes, we should take this to another level | had good discussions in this group
- Maccabee in chat: Lehigh might be interested in contributing to this development
- Jenn in chat: To be transparent I was thinking of arlef
- Owen in chat: I think some presentation on use cases as well would be really good - some support for actually getting this done
- Jenn in chat: I think we should also consider the intersection with data import and the gaps there this would fill
- Maura in chat: +1 Jenn
- Charlotte in chat: We might also would like to see the Camunda Work Flow module and the Dash Board module to interact
- Maura Byrne in chat: +1 Charlotte. Definitely.
- Owen: use cases in ERM might have been different | functionality within app vs. functionality in workflow engine | look at where boundaries might lay < might work well for automating processes
- what functionality might need to be in app?
- would this help delievering needed functionality | could check e.g. in ERM | will discus with ERM dev and funding team
- Jeremy: Owen could meet with ERM folks at TAMU
- Maccabee in chat: Lehigh developed the Jira-based Purchase Request Platform that I think Owen is referring to. There is definitely intersection between that kind of human-oriented workflow and what TAMU's work provides.
- Jeremy: modules could be leaner
- Jenn: This is the thing I feel most excited about in FOLIO at the moment.
- Kristin: how do we raise awareness in project
- Owen and Martina will have conversation with core ERM team
- will take it to PC | maybe would be good to out together some use cases in advance |this would be helped by adopting this
- AI could summarize different workflow options
- Maura in: +1 Kristin
- Owen in chat: Yeah - that could be good I think Kristin
- Jenn Colt in chat: I think the work TAMU has put in to making a module shouldn’t be understated
Vs those of us api=ing - Charlotte Whitt in chat: + 1 Jenn
- Jenn in chat: Like I don’t think starting over should be it
- Maccabee in chat: Kristen++ There are gaps in FOLIO that require external solutions, that a workflow solution would help fill
- Dung-Lan in chat: +1 Maccabee & Kristin
Chat
18:15:32 Von Owen Stephens an Alle:
Thanks Jeremy
18:17:21 Von Maccabee Levine an Alle:
Jeremy do you workflows include any human-mediated steps? What is the UI / UX?
18:33:58 Von Owen Stephens an Alle:
That seems like a good use case to describe and measure potential solutions against
18:35:18 Von Owen Stephens an Alle:
“We were so worried about whether it could do, we never stopped to ask if we *should* do it” 🙂
18:37:28 Von Owen Stephens an Alle:
You and I have different ideas of what’s fun Jeremy 🙂
18:42:11 Von Jenn Colt an Alle:
Even though we are currently using Prefect I would be really excited to see this going forward. I think we could probably port over our scripts
18:44:28 Von Maura Byrne an Alle:
Is this in the Folio GitHub?
18:46:32 Von Jenn Colt an Alle:
If you were to spin up a team would it be just A&M or would you be able to take on help from others?
18:47:52 Von Maccabee Levine an Alle:
Lehigh might be interested in contributing to this development
18:47:55 Von Jenn Colt an Alle:
To be transparent I was thinking of arlef
18:48:10 Von Owen Stephens an Alle:
I think some presentation on use cases as well would be really good - some support for actually getting this done
18:48:40 Von Jenn Colt an Alle:
I think we should also consider the intersection with data import and the gaps there this would fill
18:48:52 Von Maura Byrne an Alle:
+1 Jenn
18:50:38 Von Charlotte Whitt an Alle:
We might also would like to see the Camunda Work Flow module and the Dash Board module to interact
18:50:58 Von Maura Byrne an Alle:
+1 Charlotte. Definitely.
18:52:41 Von Maccabee Levine an Alle:
Lehigh developed the Jira-based Purchase Request Platform that I think Owen is referring to. There is definitely intersection between that kind of human-oriented workflow and what TAMU's work provides.
18:54:27 Von Jenn Colt an Alle:
This is the thing I feel most excited about in FOLIO at the moment.
18:55:07 Von Huff, Jeremy T an Alle:
Reacted to "This is the thing I ..." with 👍
18:58:02 Von Martina Schildt | VZG an Alle:
+1 Owen
18:58:25 Von Maura Byrne an Alle:
+1 Kristin
18:58:26 Von Owen Stephens an Alle:
Yeah - that could be good I think Kristin
18:58:35 Von Laura Daniels an Alle:
sorry, need to drop off -- thanks so much Jeremy
18:58:37 Von Jenn Colt an Alle:
I think the work TAMU has put in to making a module shouldn’t be understated
18:58:50 Von Jenn Colt an Alle:
Vs those of us api=ing
18:58:50 Von Charlotte Whitt an Alle:
+ 1 Jenn
18:59:03 Von Jenn Colt an Alle:
Like I don’t think starting over should be it
18:59:08 Von Martina Schildt | VZG an Alle:
Reacted to "sorry, need to drop ..." with 👋
18:59:20 Von Owen Stephens an Alle:
Reacted to "I think the work TAM..." with 👍
18:59:35 Von Huff, Jeremy T an Alle:
Reacted to "Like I don’t think s..." with 👏
18:59:46 Von Maccabee Levine an Alle:
Kristen++ There are gaps in FOLIO that require external solutions, that a workflow solution would help fill
19:00:32 Von Dung-Lan Chen an Alle:
+1 Maccabee & Kristin
Transcript
Future topics
- Topic proposal by Owen Stephens for October:
- Use of shortcut keys and macros for more effective cross-app working - it also be good to have UX and Stripes/dev knowledge for this discussion I think. I know @Laura (she/they) uses macros so might have insights into the potential for cross-app working
- UX/UI and implementers topics
- should be Wednesdays
- Comprehensive look at where data is copied and stored as opposed to live data | how it is represented
- Date filters and how they work in different apps
- Printing
Attendees
Present | Name | Home Organization |
---|---|---|
Brooks Travis | EBSCO | |
x | Charlotte Whitt | Index Data |
Dennis Bridges | EBSCO | |
x | Dung-Lan Chen | Skidmore College |
Erin Nettifee | Duke | |
Gill Osguthorpe | UX/UI Designer - K-Int | |
x | Heather McMillan Thoele | TAMU |
Ian Ibbotson | Developer Lead - K-Int | |
Jag Goraya | K-Int | |
x | Jana Freytag | VZG, Göttingen |
x | Jenn Colt | Cornell |
Khalilah Gambrell | EBSCO | |
Kimberly Pamplin | TAMU | |
Kirstin Kemner-Heek | VZG, Göttingen | |
x | Kristin Martin | Chicago |
x | Laura Daniels | Cornell |
Lloyd Chittenden | Marmot Library Network | |
Marc Johnson | K-Int | |
x | Martina Schildt | VZG, Göttingen |
x | Martina Tumulla | hbz, Cologne |
x | Maura Byrne | Chicago |
Mike Gorrell | Index Data | |
x | Owen Stephens | Product Owner - Owen Stephens Consulting |
Patty Wanninger | Product owner Users app | |
Rachel A Sneed | TAMU | |
Sara Colglazier | Five Colleges / Mount Holyoke College Library | |
x | Susanne Schuster | BSZ Konstanz |
John Coburn | EBSCO | |
Zak Burke | EBSCO | |
Daniel Huang | Lehigh | |
x | Maccabee Levine | Lehigh |
Robert Scheier | Holy Cross | |
Jeremy Nelson | Stanford | |
Ingolf Kuss | hbz | |
x | Jeremy Huff |