2023-03-08 Meeting notes: Status of Camunda work

Date

Housekeeping

Discussion items

  1. Status of Camunda work developed by TAMU | Jeremy Huff 
  2. jere

Minutes

  • Jeremy gives a tour of the current functionality
  • use reporting dashboard for workflows | Camunda Cockpit
  • different process definitions | graphical representations of workflows | read only
  • Camunda integrates with LDP
  • Camunda does API calls to FOLIO
  • drive process using a command line tool: folio-workflow-cli | want to see a UI in the context of stripes
  • Components currently are:
    • mod-workflow provides workflow interface
    • mod-camunda provides workflow engine interface
    • fw-registry
    • fw-cli runs alongside an instance of registry | sends requests to mod-workflow
  • could be useful for people who use other workflow technology
  • mod-camunda includes camunda | all built in
  • there are ambitions to getting this into the flower releases | getting work trough evaluation process
  • Maccabee in chat: Jeremy do you workflows include any human-mediated steps?  What is the UI / UX?
    • Jeremy: yes, spinning chair tasks | workflow pauses for asynchronous human feedback | currently no workflows implemented that do that, but part of initial design
  • basic steps

    • building
    • activate
    • run/trigger workflow | manual or define triggers
    • monitor | camunda cockpit can be used here
  • other trigger types
    • schedule trigger
    • event trigger
  • we should
    • replace fw-registry and fw-cli with a graphical user interface
    • become compliant with FOLIO module acceptance criteria
    • implement exception handling strategy
    • increase test coverage
    • expanded tasks
      • processes, decissions, human tasks
      • batch tasks
    • kafka integration?
  • Kristin: if you want this to become part of FOLIO would you need to license camunda?
    • Jeremy: camunda is open source (that's why it was selected as technology for this)
    • built into mod-camunda
  • Owen: in other areas such as open search, kafka what's happened is: some team did it and that was the choice
    • having the choice here is great
    • on the other hand what we need here is the workflows
    • how do we move from "this can work" to "this is how we do it"?
      • Jeremy: need to get through evaluation process
      • having the choice is more labour intensive, that's why laid out design pattern
  • Kristin: have use case that they want to use Prefect; could that work with mod-Camunda
  • Owen: That seems like a good use case to describe and measure potential solutions against
  • Jeremy: integrate worklfow engine to mod-workflow - work estimate 3-4 weeks for 2 developers | easy to do, but would require development
  • if wanting to create a workflow you need to start creating JSON documents |  doing this is not fun | being a developer would help | that's why we need a UI
  • the goal is to make it more accessible with UI set up
  • Jenn: will you be able through UI to pass parameters?
    • Jeremy: yes, accepts predefined inouts, delivers the results via mail attachment
  • Maccabee: have there been conversations with Sebastian on initial workflow thoughts
    • Jeremy: yes, a lot was based on conversations with him
  • Jenn: does this deal with machine user?
    • Jeremy: yes, could work with specific user interacting with okapi | in theory
  • Martina S.: What is the timeline for this being part of folio flower releases?
    • Jeremy: we are rather away from this < know that they want to work on it
  • Maura in chat: Is this in the Folio GitHub?
    • initially yes, forked in TAMU to continue to work on it | not sure whether in sync
  • Jenn in chat: If you were to spin up a team would it be just A&M or would you be able to take on help from others?
    • Jeremy: would love to take on help from others
  • Martina S.: maybe we could find groups where we should market the work?
  • Kristin: yes, we should take this to another level | had good discussions in this group
  • Maccabee in chat: Lehigh might be interested in contributing to this development
  • Jenn in chat: To be transparent I was thinking of arlef
  • Owen in chat: I think some presentation on use cases as well would be really good - some support for actually getting this done
  • Jenn in chat: I think we should also consider the intersection with data import and the gaps there this would fill
  • Maura in chat: +1 Jenn
  • Charlotte in chat: We might also would like to see the Camunda Work Flow module and the Dash Board module to interact
  • Maura Byrne in chat: +1 Charlotte.  Definitely.
  • Owen: use cases in ERM might have been different | functionality within app vs. functionality in workflow engine | look at where boundaries might lay < might work well for automating processes
    • what functionality might need to be in app?
    • would this help delievering needed functionality | could check e.g. in ERM | will discus with ERM dev and funding team
  • Jeremy: Owen could meet with ERM folks at TAMU
  • Maccabee in chat: Lehigh developed the Jira-based Purchase Request Platform that I think Owen is referring to.  There is definitely intersection between that kind of human-oriented workflow and what TAMU's work provides.
  • Jeremy: modules could be leaner 
  • Jenn: This is the thing I feel most excited about in FOLIO at the moment.
  • Kristin: how do we raise awareness in project
    • Owen and Martina will have conversation with core ERM team
  • will take it to PC | maybe would be good to out together some use cases in advance |this would be helped by adopting this
    • AI could summarize different workflow options
  • Maura in: +1 Kristin
  • Owen in chat: Yeah - that could be good I think Kristin
  • Jenn Colt in chat: I think the work TAMU has put in to making a module shouldn’t be understated
    Vs those of us api=ing
  • Charlotte Whitt in chat: + 1 Jenn
  • Jenn in chat: Like I don’t think starting over should be it
  • Maccabee in chat: Kristen++ There are gaps in FOLIO that require external solutions, that a workflow solution would help fill
  • Dung-Lan in chat: +1 Maccabee & Kristin

Chat

18:15:32 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    Thanks Jeremy
18:17:21 Von  Maccabee Levine  an  Alle:
    Jeremy do you workflows include any human-mediated steps?  What is the UI / UX?
18:33:58 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    That seems like a good use case to describe and measure potential solutions against
18:35:18 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    “We were so worried about whether it could do, we never stopped to ask if we *should* do it” 🙂
18:37:28 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    You and I have different ideas of what’s fun Jeremy 🙂
18:42:11 Von  Jenn Colt  an  Alle:
    Even though we are currently using Prefect I would be really excited to see this going forward. I think we could probably port over our scripts
18:44:28 Von  Maura Byrne  an  Alle:
    Is this in the Folio GitHub?
18:46:32 Von  Jenn Colt  an  Alle:
    If you were to spin up a team would it be just A&M or would you be able to take on help from others?
18:47:52 Von  Maccabee Levine  an  Alle:
    Lehigh might be interested in contributing to this development
18:47:55 Von  Jenn Colt  an  Alle:
    To be transparent I was thinking of arlef
18:48:10 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    I think some presentation on use cases as well would be really good - some support for actually getting this done
18:48:40 Von  Jenn Colt  an  Alle:
    I think we should also consider the intersection with data import and the gaps there this would fill
18:48:52 Von  Maura Byrne  an  Alle:
    +1 Jenn
18:50:38 Von  Charlotte Whitt  an  Alle:
    We might also would like to see the Camunda Work Flow module and the Dash Board module to interact
18:50:58 Von  Maura Byrne  an  Alle:
    +1 Charlotte.  Definitely.
18:52:41 Von  Maccabee Levine  an  Alle:
    Lehigh developed the Jira-based Purchase Request Platform that I think Owen is referring to.  There is definitely intersection between that kind of human-oriented workflow and what TAMU's work provides.
18:54:27 Von  Jenn Colt  an  Alle:
    This is the thing I feel most excited about in FOLIO at the moment.
18:55:07 Von  Huff, Jeremy T  an  Alle:
    Reacted to "This is the thing I ..." with 👍
18:58:02 Von  Martina Schildt | VZG  an  Alle:
    +1 Owen
18:58:25 Von  Maura Byrne  an  Alle:
    +1 Kristin
18:58:26 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    Yeah - that could be good I think Kristin
18:58:35 Von  Laura Daniels  an  Alle:
    sorry, need to drop off -- thanks so much Jeremy
18:58:37 Von  Jenn Colt  an  Alle:
    I think the work TAMU has put in to making a module shouldn’t be understated
18:58:50 Von  Jenn Colt  an  Alle:
    Vs those of us api=ing
18:58:50 Von  Charlotte Whitt  an  Alle:
    + 1 Jenn
18:59:03 Von  Jenn Colt  an  Alle:
    Like I don’t think starting over should be it
18:59:08 Von  Martina Schildt | VZG  an  Alle:
    Reacted to "sorry, need to drop ..." with 👋
18:59:20 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    Reacted to "I think the work TAM..." with 👍
18:59:35 Von  Huff, Jeremy T  an  Alle:
    Reacted to "Like I don’t think s..." with 👏
18:59:46 Von  Maccabee Levine  an  Alle:
    Kristen++ There are gaps in FOLIO that require external solutions, that a workflow solution would help fill
19:00:32 Von  Dung-Lan Chen  an  Alle:
    +1 Maccabee & Kristin

Transcript

Future topics

  • Topic proposal by Owen Stephens for October:
    • Use of shortcut keys and macros for more effective cross-app working  - it also be good to have UX and Stripes/dev knowledge for this discussion I think. I know @Laura (she/they) uses macros so might have insights into the potential for cross-app working
  • UX/UI and implementers topics
    • should be Wednesdays
  • Comprehensive look at where data is copied and stored as opposed to live data | how it is represented
  • Date filters and how they work in different apps
  • Printing

Attendees

Present

Name

Home Organization


Brooks Travis

EBSCO

x

Charlotte Whitt

Index Data


Dennis Bridges

EBSCO

xDung-Lan ChenSkidmore College

Erin NettifeeDuke

Gill Osguthorpe

UX/UI Designer - K-Int

x

Heather McMillan Thoele

TAMU


Ian Ibbotson

Developer Lead - K-Int


Jag GorayaK-Int
x

Jana Freytag

VZG, Göttingen

xJenn ColtCornell

Khalilah Gambrell

EBSCO


Kimberly PamplinTAMU

Kirstin Kemner-Heek  

VZG, Göttingen

x

Kristin Martin

Chicago

x

Laura Daniels

Cornell


Lloyd Chittenden

Marmot Library Network


Marc JohnsonK-Int
x

Martina Schildt

VZG, Göttingen

x

Martina Tumulla

hbz, Cologne

x

Maura Byrne

Chicago


Mike Gorrell

Index Data

x

Owen Stephens

Product Owner -  Owen Stephens Consulting


Patty Wanninger

Product owner Users app


Rachel A SneedTAMU

Sara ColglazierFive Colleges / Mount Holyoke College Library
xSusanne SchusterBSZ Konstanz

John CoburnEBSCO

Zak BurkeEBSCO

Daniel HuangLehigh
xMaccabee LevineLehigh

Robert ScheierHoly Cross

Jeremy NelsonStanford

Ingolf Kusshbz
xJeremy Huff

Action items

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