2024-02-21 - ERM meeting
Meeting Time: 8 am EST / 2 pm CET / 1 pm UK
Call in Number: https://zoom.us/j/995679876
Meeting URL: https://zoom.us/j/995679876 Password needed: please see link below
https://folio-org.atlassian.net/wiki/display/COMMUNITY/FOLIO+Meetings+with+Zoom
ERM SIG Folio Wiki: https://folio-org.atlassian.net/wiki/display/ERMSIG/
Google Folder: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/17X3tr6siZH8iS07kGcjAqUNl01zVrJmB
Terms and definitions: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vue-mbcULpZivWu69a7nAZEdC-H2yXPQqSblbL_0J6U
Slack Channel: # erm-team
Agenda Feb 21th 2024
Convener: Martina T.
Notetaker: Martina S.
Housekeeping
All: Please edit the attendees list below and indicate when you are there!
Next ERM meeting: Mar 6, 2024
All questions and ERM implementers' topics can be posted on: ERM implementers.
PC meetings
Agenda items
Update on ERM SIG meeting frequency and subgroups
Development progress - ERM sprint 185
Avoiding multiple users editing a record at the same time (continuation)
Implementers topic #5: Numeration of Agreement lines
Minutes
Update on ERM SIG meeting frequency and subgroups
From March 2024 onwards, meeting frequency will be reduced to one meeting every 4 weeks - starting March 6th.
The subgroup on local KB topics would meet every 4 weeks as well - starting March 20th - at 8am ET as well.
Eholdings subgroup will meet in between - every 4 weeks as well - starting on March 13th - lead by @Zorian Sasyk - starting at 8am ET, maybe time will change as many eholdings users are in US
Zoom links and invitations will follow - there will be new links for the different meetings
Development progress
a lot of work the team is looking at is related to importing data to the local KB
there were a number of issues reported with the GOKB imports
this sprint a lot of the time will go into solving these issues
institutions using the live GOKB connected to ERM will notice slowness due to the amount of data - work is going on here - same applies to snapshot that has been connected to GOKB as well and is currently newly harvesting the data
there will be a significantly larger number of titles in the local KB after harvesting has finished
initial harvest sometimes takes a month
performance fixes will be backported to Poppy
small usability improvements will be released
Avoiding multiple users editing a record at the same time (continuation)
Usually when 2 users change a record at the same time, they are editing different things which both need to be saved
switch to record locking needs to be done app by app
key record types to change to record locking
do first Agreements,
then Agreement lines
then Licences and
Amendments
the ERM SIG agrees to this order
next steps:
Owen to so some planning
most probably copying existing implementation (MARC record source)
analyse where we need/want anything more
work with Gill to do some designs together
planning for Ramsons or Sunflower
more discussions will happen as soon as we have some designs
Implementers topic #5: Numeration of Agreement lines
implementers topic came up in last discussion
this applies in several different places
would like to add a column -
with agreement line number
clicking on column value would lead to view the agreement line
as in orders, which seems to be the most relatable example to compare to
numbering would be sequentially
when deleting an AGL: the number can not be re-used - the system will create the next available number as AGL#
Comment by Felix in chat: To me having numbers for agreements and AGRLines seems artificial. In Orders this number is used a lot when talking internally or with the vendor. It will be printed on order slips and then it makes finding the order easy when you have to receive the piece. But there is no similar workflow for agreements.
Owen: there are 2 things we would like to achieve
one thing to click
another to have a way to refer to an agreement line
Clara in chat: Personally, as an eholdings user, I'm having trouble imagining searching agls by the equivalent to an agl number, since that would just be another number to remember that isn't any less arbitrary than the reference number
Owen: sometimes there is a mixture of attached (eholdings) and unattached AGLs where numbers can be handy
Clara: would add one more layer of confusion
Zorian in chat: My initial thoughts are similar to Felix's
why can names from eholdings packages not be searchable like unattached AGLs
Owen: this would be a good topic for the new eholdings subgroup
Zorian in chat: Agreed, we can take it up in the eHoldings group
reasons are architectural and implementation decisions
system just stores the reference number in Agreements due to eholdings implementation decisions
none of these decisions are set in stone
Clara: being able to search eholdings package or title name in Agreements would help users
calls to HLM slow search in Agreements down
Felix in chat: when you store it, then you would not have to make those calls at all. But maybe implement a function to refresh the data that is stored in Agreements. In case data in eHoldings change
Gail in chat: I agree with Felix, but I do think some kind of numbering for AGLs would be very helpful when you have lots of AGLs on an AG and are trying to keep track of what you're looking at, and I don't like the idea of different numbering systems across apps, so mirroring the imperfect orders numbering makes the most sense to me.
Clara in chat: To be clear, even though I don't see much help to the agreement-agl numbering system as far as searching goes, I do agree with Gail (and Sara) that numbering on the agls in the agreements view would make it easier to keep track of what you're doing/something to click on
*be something reasonable to click on
So far AGLs sort by Name/description > if the name or description is changed, the order will change - or if there is a new line that sorts in between
we could either come up with a transitory numbering system > then the numbering would be a place to click > number would change if the order of AGLs would change
or we could implement numbering in a more persistent way
question: does it matter to users?
Clara: Not a strongly held opinion, but I would be worried about the implications for agreements with large numbers of agls if they had persistent numbering
Martina T.: would go for persistent numbering
Clara: often AGLs are deleted or added > with persistent numbering everything would be over the place - could be confusing to users
often there are hundreds of AGLs
but that is not a strongly held opinion
How persistent should AGLs be?
when adding an AGL > system could look for the first empty slot
or take deletion of an AGL as a trigger to renumber all AGLs
Clara: every numbering system would be better than none
Felix in chat: Please just add +1 every time and leave gaps in between.
Felix in chat: What about a prefix? 10585 could otherwise be a PO number or an AGR number...
Owen: that would be possible, but it might be better to treat numbering as a sequence within an Agreement
possible: AGR1, AGL1, AL1, Line 1 > means slightly less precision in mouse finding clickable number
Chat
14:02:27 Von Martina Tumulla an Alle:
today's agenda: 2024-02-21 - ERM meeting
14:31:37 Von Felix Hemme an Alle:
To me having numbers for agreements and AGRLines seems artificial. In Orders this number is used a lot when talking internally or with the vendor. It will be printed on order slips and then it makes finding the order easy when you have to receive the piece. But there is no similar workflow for agreements.
14:31:58 Von Felix Hemme an Alle:
What are we trying to solve? Just have another column where we can click?
14:32:11 Von Clara Marino an Alle:
Personally, as an eholdings user, I'm having trouble imagining searching agls by the equivalent to an agl number, since that would just be another number to remember that isn't any less arbitrary than the reference number
14:32:30 Von Zorian Sasyk | EBSCO FOLIO Implementation an Alle:
My initial thoughts are similar to Felix's
14:32:54 Von Gail Murray (she/her) an Alle:
I agree with Felix, but I do think some kind of numbering for AGLs would be very helpful when you have lots of AGLs on an AG and are trying to keep track of what you're looking at, and I don't like the idea of different numbering systems across apps, so mirroring the imperfect orders numbering makes the most sense to me.
14:35:31 Von Clara Marino an Alle:
Reacted to "I agree with Felix, ..." with 👍
14:41:31 Von Felix Hemme an Alle:
When you store it, then you would not have to make those calls at all.
14:41:49 Von Felix Hemme an Alle:
But maybe implement a function to refresh the data that is stored in Agreements
14:42:08 Von Felix Hemme an Alle:
In case data in eHoldings changes
14:43:57 Von Zorian Sasyk | EBSCO FOLIO Implementation an Alle:
Agreed, we can take it up in the eHoldings group
14:44:51 Von Jessica Harris an Alle:
I'm not seeing anyone's chat's here. Did the settings change to only allow moderators to view chats?
14:45:16 Von Clara Marino an Alle:
I can see other people's chats
14:45:18 Von Zorian Sasyk | EBSCO FOLIO Implementation an Alle:
I can see all chats
14:45:18 Von Gail Murray (she/her) an Alle:
I can see them too
14:45:50 Von Jessica Harris an Alle:
I think I may need to sign out & in again - I also can't unmute
14:45:54 Von Jessica Harris an Alle:
Be back in a sec
14:48:36 Von Clara Marino an Alle:
To be clear, even though I don't see much help to the agreement-agl numbering system as far as searching goes, I do agree with Gail (and Sara) that numbering on the agls in the agreements view would make it easier to keep track of what you're doing/something to click on
14:48:57 Von Clara Marino an Alle:
*be something reasonable to click on
14:50:31 Von Clara Marino an Alle:
Not a strongly held opinion, but I would be worried about the implications for agreements with large numbers of agls if they had persistent numbering
14:55:12 Von Felix Hemme an Alle:
Please just add +1 every time and leave gaps in between.
14:55:53 Von Felix Hemme an Alle:
What about a prefix? 10585 could otherwise be a PO number or an AGR number...
14:58:17 Von Felix Hemme an Alle:
Oh our term is nice! --> Vereinbarungskomponente-001 ;)
14:59:17 Von Clara Marino an Alle:
"Line 1"
Attendees list
Present | Name | Home Organization |
---|---|---|
Aaron Neslin | UMass | |
Alice Daugherty | University of Alabama | |
Alissa Hafele | Stanford University | |
Amelia Sutton | UMass | |
Andrea Meindl | UB Regensburg | |
Annika Schröer | UB Leipzig | |
Annika Zierhut | ||
Anya Arnold | EBSCO | |
x | Beate Aretz | SBB |
x | Becca Banach | Smith College |
Benjamin Ahlborn | SuUB Bremen | |
Bernd Oberknapp | UB Freiburg / ReDI | |
Beverly Geckle | MTSU | |
Birgit Neumann | ||
Carol Sterenberg | ||
Carola Bauch-Schuster | UB Eichstätt-Ingolstadt | |
Carole Godfrey | EBSCO | |
x | Catherine Tuohy | Emmanuel College |
Charlotte Whitt | Index Data | |
| Clara Marino | |
Claudia Malzer | ULB Darmstadt, Developer | |
Constantin Lehenmeier | ||
Dorothe Kugler | UB Mainz | |
x | Dwayne Swigert | Missouri State University |
Emma Raub | Cornell | |
x | Elizabeth Richens | |
Eric Hartnett | Texas A&M University | |
x | Felix Hemme | ZBW Kiel |
x | Gail Murray | Five Colleges / Smith College |
Gang Zhou | Shanghai Library | |
x | Gill Osguthorpe | UX/UI Designer - K-Int |
Gisela Weinerth | SUB Hamburg | |
Gregory Edwards | Lehigh University | |
Heather MacFarlane | ||
Heather Thoele | Texas A&M University | |
Ian Ibbotson | Developer Lead - K-Int | |
Jag Goraya | K-Int | |
Janet Ewing | Five Colleges / Mount Holyoke College Library | |
Jenna Lantermann | Five Colleges / Smith College | |
x | Jessica Harris | Chicago |
Jir Shin Boey | Missouri State University | |
Joe Sikowitz | Fenway Library Organization | |
Johanna Radding | Five Colleges / Amherst College | |
Julie Brannon | Duke | |
Kathleen Berry | UMass Amherst | |
Kathleen Norton | Five Colleges / Mount Holyoke College Library | |
Katrin Brüggemann | UB Leipzig | |
Khalilah Gambrell | EBSCO | |
Kristin Martin | Chicago | |
Kyle Banerjee | EBSCO | |
x | Lars-Hakan Herbertsson | Chalmers |
Laurenz Kern | Stabi Berlin | |
Leonie Bodinus | UB Erlangen-Nürnberg | |
Lilly Zirngibl | ||
Lindsey Lowry | University of Alabama | |
Lisa Hartlmüller | UB Regensburg | |
Lisa Schneeberger | ||
Lola Estelle | EBSCO | |
Luca Lanzillo | Sapienza Library System - Sapienza University of Rome | |
Lucas Moder | UB Regensburg | |
Lucia McBride | Lehigh University | |
Mara Egherman | EBSCO | |
Maria Taylor | ||
Marie Widigson | Chalmers | |
Mariyam Thorhira | Johns Hopkins University Libraries | |
Marjorie Snyder | ||
Mark Arnold | Missouri State University | |
Martin Scholz | ||
Martina Karlsson | Chalmers | |
x | Martina Schildt | VZG, Göttingen |
x | Martina Tumulla | hbz, Cologne |
Mary O’Brien | ||
Marya Kovalenko | ||
Matthieu Bordet | DMCultura, Ravenna, Italy | |
Mohammad Alhamad | Missouri State University | |
Molly Driscoll | EBSCO | |
Nancy Finn | ||
x | Nancy Pelis | Five Colleges / Mount Holyoke College Library |
Nicole Trujillo | ||
Regrets | Nina Stellmann | VZG, Göttingen |
Norma Flores | Texas A&M University | |
x | Owen Stephens | Product Owner - Owen Stephens Consulting |
Paul Trumble | Amherst | |
Paivi Rentz | Texas State University | |
x | Peter Böhm | HeBIS, Frankfurt |
Peter McCracken | Cornell | |
Phil Adams | De Montfort University | |
Ray Murray | ||
Robert Heaton | EBSCO | |
Robert Scheier | College of the Holy Cross | |
Rüdiger Stratmann | IAI SPK Berlin | |
Sabine Howahl | ULB Darmstadt | |
x | Sabrina Bayer | UB Regensburg |
Sara Colglazier | Five Colleges / Mount Holyoke College Library | |
Sarah Dennis | Texas A&M University | |
Sarah Morgenstern-Einenkel | UB Leipzig | |
Scott Perry | ||
Scott Stangroom | UMass | |
Sharon Beltaine | ||
Siobhan McManamon | Five Colleges / Smith College | |
Sobha Duvvuri | EBSCO | |
Stephani Kaceli | Cairn University | |
Stephanie Larrison | Texas State University | |
Stew MacLehose | University of New England | |
Susanne Gill | BVB | |
Susanne Schuster | BSZ Konstanz | |
Susie Skowronek | ||
Tara Barnett | ||
Tatjana Clemens | UB Frankfurt | |
Tracy Patton | Missouri State University | |
Valerie Cervantes | ||
Xiaoyan (Yan) Song | NCSU | |
x | Zorian Sasyk | EBSCO |