| Check-In of the PC to support the work of the SIGs | Kristin Martin Questions collected by the PC: - Can you share the purpose of your SIG: functional area/cross cutting/affinity group, etc.
Ingolf Kuss System operators bringing up the issues, document what should be picked up in the future. Problems with installations and operations, bring to the attention to the community. Tickets and develop and solved. Which can be a problem.
Uwe Reh: Agreed that Ingolfs's summary is correct.
Florian Gleixner: production environment for FOLIO is a goal of the SIG, research production environment, describe and document it.
What environments do we what to support, Kubernetes environments with containers. Still not well documented in development.
Kristin Martin much more of technical focus, talking with acquisitions, PC not as helpful with SysOps issues, have been able to help with more functionality issues and not technical. Ingolf Kuss Bring up SysOps issues to PC. Current has been effective, discussions with PC have been bring up with TC. Getting it to developers, never had a PO for SysOps. TC cannot assign developer capabilities. Toothless tiger, say the same things again and again but not developed.
Tod Olson good description, purpose of SysOps is to represent the concerns practically running a FOLIO system, for both production and development purposes. When there are difficulties or obstacles the SIG is the body that speaks. Tod Olson Difficult to turn speaking up into action. Example of difficult with reference data, turning into actual development time to implement continues to be a challenge. Still not clear what is reference data, sample data, etc. Developer focus is on functional issues not technical issues. Librarians may not see changes but systems operators see the change, system operators may not be able to upgrade in a time. Robustness of the operations. As more libraries go live, the big hosting providers getting more clients, some of the things that SysOps are talking about are being felt more urgently.
Kristin Martin when PC setting priorities, PC would not rank things that are not non-functional requirements, PC doesn't know how does that work actual happen, who is doing this work?
Tod Olson long time ago, community some percentage of hours were for non-functional requirements, community resources have decreased, unclear who can assign resources.
Ingolf Kuss IndexData may be looking at some of these issues, Tod Olson more theory but not practical implementation, someone will have to support this time.
Kristin Martin make sense for SysOps to have PO and developer team? Ingolf Kuss PO would make sense, team not sure. May span multiple teams like Okapi. Kristin Martin part of the issues as we moved away from community to contributed resources, partners not interested in this area, focus more functionality for clients. All think that FOLIO should be easy to deploy and work. Ingolf Kuss also focus on self-hosting.
Tod Olson another factor for a number of SysOps concerns, cut across different areas. If we concern have a db resources FOLIO is using, something about deployment, often touches many modules. FOLIO hasn't had a good way to deal with things across many modules or functional domains.
- What areas does your SIG have responsibility for?
- What do you feel like your SIGs purpose is currently? Has it changed over time?
Kristin Martin purpose has changed over the time? Ingolf Kuss no, hasn't really changed over the time. In general people members of SIG has changed, still have the same needs as three years ago. Hasn't changed much.
- Do you have product owners who regularly work with the SIG? Do you feel that your requirements are being successfully developed into FOLIO?
Ingolf Kuss No, we don't have and that is a problem. We had Hkaplanian , people considers him a part of Ebsco so he doesn't feel in the
Nils Olof Paulsson what is SysOps product? We don't have a product. Actual we do have a product, knowledge of installation, maintenance troubleshooting. Knowledge and documentation. Ingolf Kuss We are the people who know how to operate the system. Should we work more on documentation? We have wiki pages, it is not always up-to-date. Github places, on the other end we say we need better documentation, parts of it we must write ourselves. Nils Olof Paulsson do we have any new libraries that will be self-hosting. Germany definitely most self-hosting, are they satisfied with the current documentation. Ingolf Kuss people ask for help, Nils Olof Paulsson documentation should be sufficient so that new installations do not need to be PO might make sense for documentation.
- How do you feel about the resources allocated in the development areas you are focused on?
Ingolf Kuss little or none resources. Nils Olof Paulsson no development here, question implies development. Kristin Martin Like acquisitions, PO, development team, updates. Different for SysOps. Nils Olof Paulsson need documentation and user support. - What are some of the challenges facing your SIG/subgroup? Are there ways in which you feel the SIG has been unable to accomplish its mission?
Kristin Martin it is too complicate to stand-up a FOLIO instance, complicated issue in of its self. Issues are so foundational and fundamental change FOLIO, spans across modules. How to go from talk to action? Came up with models, some models. Stewart Engart is this an issue where almost all dev teams are led by vendors so there is little incentive for dev groups to dev for self hosting? Ingolf Kuss are not as much interest in self-hosting, vendors not interested in supporting self-hosting, want to offer hosting solutions. Kristin Martin would think vendors would be interested in making FOLIO easier to operate. Complicated resource-hunger installations will be problems for vendors as well. Tod Olson difficult to operate FOLIO takes people and resources. Ingolf Kuss vendors should come to SysOps to solve these but solve them for this. Nils Olof Paulsson Current batch of vendors yes, but what about potential new vendors. GDPR compliant installations. Vendors have to do this.
- If you work on areas of development, do you feel like there are areas of development not resourced at all or significantly under-resourced?
Ingolf Kuss Yes! But we don't work in development so okay.
- What has been successful with the SIG? What things contributed to that success?
Ingolf Kuss jroot! Protect him at all cost. Chris Rutledge very helpful for jroot valuable information on DevOps documentations and process. He always responds to Slack questions in channel. Nils Olof Paulsson he is not thing! Ingolf Kuss slack channel is helpful and people get help in Slack channel. Kubernetes sub-group a success for getting FOLIO up . Florian Kreft Documentation was a success, especially Ingolf Kuss single server documentation. SIG as a whole is a success. Tod Olson coming to the agreement of how to describe the problems. Often we want to go from something that hurts to an immediate solution, SysOps looks at the deeper issues and a better understanding say something to PC or TC about these issues. Ingolf Kuss Communication is a successful. Answers from TC and functional areas. Problems most cases can be solved, problems that cannot be solved inherent to FOLIO needs to be improved, but isn't success but cannot be part of development pipeline.
- What could the Product Council do to help the SIG?
- Do you feel like the Roadmap accurately represents the work of your SIG (both desired and already accounted for) ?
Ingolf Kuss what is the roadmap? Kristin Martin roadmap meeting again, provide feedback. Comment that we haven't been using the roadmap is a comment on the roadmap, a little more prescriptive, prioritize things, roadmap can help. Uwe Reh SysOps doesn't plan new functions, handle actual, testing and support and not a planning project. Maybe SysOps doesn't plan enough. Tod Olson give a quick read of the deployment and operational needs in the roadmap. Kristin Martin did try to add operational, but didn't know how to schedule. not having dedicated PO or resources for SysOps. Kristin Martin haven't updated in a while or link to existing Jira tickets. jpnelson comments on semantic versioning and hard to know where to start or who would be picked up. Tod Olson some related to activity Mike Taylor is doing theoretical work that may address some of these. Tod Olson TC and PO need to agreement. In the roadmap to aspire to even though we don't know how to get there. Ingolf Kuss systematic struggles with the roadmap. Kristin Martin Vendors make up targets and if they change vendors change. Ingolf Kuss pick up roadmap issues again in SysOps. Tod Olson roadmap and pain points need to come together.
- How can we improve our communications with the SIG? Does the current monthly reporting work? Would having a dedicated PC meeting for your SIG be helpful?
Kristin Martin From a PC perspective, things that PC can do help SysOps SIG? Ingolf Kuss monthly PC reports helpful, problems to the broader community. SysOps can just say the same things again and again. Dedicated PC meeting for SysOps, we'll think about it. Nils Olof Paulsson joke about using carrier pigeons for new communication method.
- Is the SIG comfortable communicating with the PC and have a sense of when a PC conversation would be helpful?
Yes,
- What functions should the PC be accomplishing and how would the SIGs like to have those need meet?
Kristin Martin do feel like there are gaps. Ingolf Kuss report to PC once a month. Kristin Martin Roadmap discussion helpful. Ingolf Kuss thank you for coming here.
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