2024-03-13 Formalization Working Group Meeting notes

• Craig's announcement from slack:
  • As mentioned at the meeting earlier, the Architectural PoC Preview environment is now available.  Please see the google sheet linked below for details.  This document will serve as a mechanism for providing feedback/questions/etc.  Please let me know if you have problems accessing the document.https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zzW2I1xMhdUpkclQRE2NvCcvx6JlNYUG4aTOiaYraJ4/edit#gid=1733306425
• Application formalization RFC has moved to public review stage:
  • https://github.com/folio-org/rfcs/pull/29

Copied to new doc because things were chaotic https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SdsRmeTLXQRpaC-6xy4sUfoOsNPN2dh2lPSnjwVZNk0/edit

Zoom chat:

00:01:29	Jenn Colt:	https://folio-org.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/CC/pages/89719390/2024-03-13+Formalization+Working+Group+Meeting+notes
00:04:11	Jenn Colt:	https://folio-org.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/CC/pages/89719390/2024-03-13+Formalization+Working+Group+Meeting+notes
00:13:12	Martin Scholz:	@Jenn: You mentioned that the TC has already gathered Questions About the POC. Could you share a link?
00:13:47	Jenn Colt:	Craig is gathering that in his spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zzW2I1xMhdUpkclQRE2NvCcvx6JlNYUG4aTOiaYraJ4/edit#gid=0
00:14:05	Martin Scholz:	Reacted to "Craig is gathering t..." with 👍
00:16:08	Marc Johnson:	The spreadsheet explicitly states that roles replace permissions
00:17:44	Marc Johnson:	If we think things need to be teased apart then we need to raise awareness of that ASAP
00:18:50	Marc Johnson:	At the very least, some of this needs raising to the wider community because it will change how integrations etc works
00:19:57	Marc Johnson:	PoCs landing without much consultation is a common challenge that’s happened before
00:20:38	Marc Johnson:	We should add questions about how architecture changes affect folks
00:26:30	Marc Johnson:	The community doesn’t have capacity to do a single round of testing per release cycle

Where is the extra capacity going to come from?
00:26:53	Marc Johnson:	Introducing applications alone does _nothing_ to change the inter-connectedness between them
00:26:59	Charlotte Whitt:	So sorry that I forgot about the time zone difference being out of sync (these weeks)
00:28:24	Martin Scholz:	My comment was meant for the more "advanced" application partitioning
00:33:55	Charlotte Whitt:	As a responsible community, we can not leave the self hosting libraries in a chaotic situation, where they don’t have a change in the World to pick the correct timing for doing upgrade of modules
00:44:01	Martin Scholz:	Would modules still be released?
00:44:46	Marc Johnson:	Replying to "Would modules still …"
Yes, modules still have to be released because applications are made up of modules and we still have to support folks not using apps
00:45:22	Ian Ibbotson:	have to dip out - thanks all
00:45:24	Martin Scholz:	Replying to "Would modules still ..."

"support folks not using apps" this only holds for the Transition phase
00:45:32	Marc Johnson:	The new thing is coordinating application releases with module releases
00:45:53	Marc Johnson:	Replying to "Would modules still …"
That transition phase is of an undetermined length, it could not end
00:46:51	Martin Scholz:	Got it. Would a module release still be of importance to the community (that uses applications)?
00:46:52	Marc Johnson:	Replying to "Would modules still …"
FOLIO hasn’t managed transitions very well historically
00:49:49	Charlotte Whitt:	I know is probably a no-no thought, but do we know of  other international projects, with hundreds of customers relying on the software, who are doing ’releases’ of mikro pieces of the system, without any coordinated planning
00:51:06	Martin Scholz:	Replying to "I know is probably a..."

I know of Drupal CMS, propably WordPress works similar
00:51:20	Charlotte Whitt:	Reacted to "I know of Drupal CMS..." with 👍🏻
00:51:52	Charlotte Whitt:	Replying to "I know is probably a..."

Okay. Good to know
00:55:03	Marc Johnson:	Replying to "I know is probably a…"
Many of those kinds of projects have centralised planning and governance for what gets in

That’s often within a single org
00:58:04	Maccabee Levine:	I do have to drop off at the hour.  Great conversation today, and we definitely need to continue.
00:58:59	Maccabee Levine:	That is what VuFind had to do -- query the module version, and conditional logic based on that.
00:59:34	Wayne Schneider:	The VuFind example could have been managed more conservatively by retaining the old endpoint with a deprecation note and introducing the new endpoint. That would be a minor release of the interface rather than a breaking change.
00:59:50	Charlotte Whitt:	Reacted to "The VuFind example c..." with 💯
01:00:05	Wayne Schneider:	For better or worse that has not historically been the ethic of development in FOLIO
01:00:15	Tod Olson:	Reacted to "The VuFind example c..." with 💯
01:00:32	Marc Johnson:	Reacted to "For better or worse …" with 👍
01:00:35	Kristin Martin (University of Chicago; she/her):	Gotta run!