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Discussion items

  1. Implementers topics | Cross-app: UX/UI
    1. UX/UI agreements across apps


Minutes

Warning Modals needed when deleting any record in any App when it is the source of truth for other records

  • To avoid dead links, or even disappearing records and information, when deleting a record to which other Apps link or connect or downstream display information regarding, a warning modal should appear informing the user that if they confirm the deletion then the following other records in such-and-such apps will be unlinked or deleted as well
  • relates maybe to cross-app data sync wg discussion | no solution found | it is impossible
    • maybe possible for specific situations, but no general solution
      • user cannot delete license that is linked to a license
  • compromise: always have warnings before deleting? > no: users will feel differently whether warnings are helpful
  • best practices need to be defined app by app
  • we cannot add information on dependencies to records
  • maybe a workflow engine can help in future
    • Laura in chat: is there any way that a workflow engine might help with this?
      Owen Stephens in chat: Possibly. If you decided to encode the rules for deletion in the workflow
      Laura in chat: that's what I was thinking... since dependencies may differ from institution to institution
  • common look in UI is helpful | need well defined error messages for records that rely on another record that was source of truth
    • Charlotte in chat: In Inventory we have implemented warning messages when deleting holdings and item
  • Guidelines for warning messages would help
  • Soft delete would be a solution that would prevent workarounds | on the other hand there are situations where we really need to delete recoords (users app)
  • important: we develop FOLIO for users; at the moment users duplicate information to not loose anything
  • This group can define guidelines in a future meeting
  • concrete use case and discuss with MM and ACQ SIG > could be successful way > work from specific use case to hopefully general solution
  • use ticket:
    Jira Legacy
    serverSystem JiraJIRA
    serverId01505d01-b853-3c2e-90f1-ee9b165564fc
    keyUXPROD-1647

Wildcards (truncation marks) need to be standardized across all Apps > May 31st

  • Conveners will check with their SIGs on
    • we want to use the same characters across apps
    • whether there is anything that prevents alignment across apps (and why)
    • holistic view

How Dates are formatted and entered

  • 2022-05-10 vs 05/10/2022 and that the user must type the punctuation mark rather that system automatically supplying it as the user types as is standard in most systems and generally online when filling out forms etc.
  • user should be able to type in own locale, even without punctuation and get the correct date displayed
  • at least align across app
  • needed: list of expectations
  • Charlotte in chat: Is that a settings page; Ghost text in the entry boxes should be aligned with, the way the user has decided to specify dates
  • what should happen in export, reporting ...
  • Martina will create a wiki page to collect expectations, everyone makes own SIG aware of that page 
  • Zak will take expectations to dev team

Next steps

  •  Martina Schildt will create a wiki page to collect expectations on date entering and formatting  
    Status
    subtletrue
    colourGreen
    titleDone
    Date formatting
  •  Re-discuss the ticket
    Jira Legacy
    serverSystem JIRA
    serverId01505d01-b853-3c2e-90f1-ee9b165564fc
    keyUXPROD-1647
    in MM and ACQ SIGs > Martina Schildt to follow-up
  •  ALL check with SIG members on whether there is anything that prevents alignment across apps on truncation  

Chat

18:03:15 Von  Heather McMillan  an  Alle:
    My first trip to DC was that time!
18:03:25 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    I want to be there 🙂
18:03:27 Von  Jana Freytag  an  Alle:
    Mine too 😄
18:03:31 Von  Heather McMillan  an  Alle:
    I hope to be in Chicago
18:03:53 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    I have family there so motivated to come!
18:04:45 Von  Laura Daniels  an  Alle:
    That is fantastic news!
18:04:58 Von  Dung-Lan Chen  an  Alle:
    Sounds very exciting!
18:04:59 Von  Sara Colglazier (MHC/5C)  an  Alle:
    @Martina, you often say: "Same procedure …." is this a play on _Dinner for One_? ;-)
18:05:19 Von  Jana Freytag  an  Alle:
    Reacted to "@Martina, you often ..." with 💯
18:05:37 Von  Jana Freytag  an  Alle:
    Reacted to "@Martina, you often ..." with 😁
18:12:49 Von  Laura Daniels  an  Alle:
    +1 to Zak's point
18:13:21 Von  Laura Daniels  an  Alle:
    We don't want to accidentally delete things, and we also don't want to have to say, "yes, I really meant that" all the time
18:20:28 Von  Laura Daniels  an  Alle:
    and we certainly can't necessarily anticipate which elements may be pulled into other apps in future
18:20:43 Von  Maura Byrne  an  Alle:
    Reacted to "and we certainly can..." with 👍
18:21:10 Von  Dung-Lan Chen  an  Alle:
    Having App or function specific deletion warning before the actual deletion can take place makes sense to me.
18:21:19 Von  Laura Daniels  an  Alle:
    is there any way that a workflow engine might help with this?
18:21:45 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    Replying to "is there any way tha..."
    
    Possibly. If you decided to encode the rules for deletion in the workflow
18:22:17 Von  Laura Daniels  an  Alle:
    Replying to "is there any way tha..."
    
    that's what I was thinking... since dependencies may differ from institution to institution
18:23:30 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    Reacted to "that's what I was th..." with 💯
18:24:58 Von  Brooks Travis  an  Alle:
    Apologies for being late to the party, but I want to take the opportunity to jump on my “soft delete” soapbox
18:25:03 Von  Charlotte Whitt  an  Alle:
    In Inventory we have implemented warning messages when deleting holdings and item
18:25:35 Von  Charlotte Whitt  an  Alle:
    But some guideline for how warnings messages should look like consistently would be great input to get
18:25:41 Von  Brooks Travis  an  Alle:
    Soft delete with dependency registration and reference tracking avoids this
18:27:16 Von  Maura Byrne  an  Alle:
    Reacted to "Soft delete with dep..." with 👍
18:27:52 Von  Sara Colglazier (MHC/5C)  an  Alle:
    Maura, was I understanding correctly, for example, App A has field X linked to App B, then I delete the record in App B, so in App A field X could now say: "I was a link that was deleted"
18:28:52 Von  Maura Byrne  an  Alle:
    Replying to "Maura, was I underst..."
    
    Yes, something like that.  Whatever works commonly across apps.
18:29:50 Von  Brooks Travis  an  Alle:
    I don’t think the soft delete approach precludes that, though.
18:30:05 Von  Maura Byrne  an  Alle:
    Reacted to "I don’t think the so..." with 👍
18:32:10 Von  Maura Byrne  an  Alle:
    Would there be a model that could be applied when  things get deleted in apps?
18:33:24 Von  Brooks Travis  an  Alle:
    I don’t oppose the work to hard-code the dependency checks, per se. I just want to make sure that solving it more holistically doesn’t fall off the radar.
18:33:26 Von  Charlotte Whitt  an  Alle:
    + 100 Zack Burke
18:33:33 Von  Maura Byrne  an  Alle:
    Reacted to "+ 100 Zack Burke" with 👍
18:35:08 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    That’s true but it’s always balance and compromise. Some decisions were made early in the process that have pros and cons. This is definitely one of the cons although there are pros as well
18:35:21 Von  Maura Byrne  an  Alle:
    Reacted to "That’s true but it’s..." with 👍
18:35:42 Von  Brooks Travis  an  Alle:
    We also need to actually implement data sync so that we can store data locally where that makes sense, whether for for search or to have it in case the “source of truth” record is deleted.
18:36:31 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    I feel very powerless having been through a long process to try to make this better and eventually making recommendations that haven’t been adopted because no one is doing it
18:36:48 Von  Brooks Travis  an  Alle:
    Agreed
18:37:47 Von  Brooks Travis  an  Alle:
    Fight forward! 🙂
18:37:53 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    From my perspective pushing for this functionality in individual modules is the best bet for eventually a solution being adopted
18:38:02 Von  Dung-Lan Chen  an  Alle:
    I think staff in each functional group can voucher for what kind of warning is needed and must have before deletion of records can occur and there are some generally recognized principles that are accepted across the board … listening to those who are actually doing the work is important, too!
18:38:10 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    Because that’s where the development resource is ultimately
18:38:52 Von  Brooks Travis  an  Alle:
    The inventory data sync into acq ever get implemented. I admit I haven’t kept track
18:39:08 Von  Brooks Travis  an  Alle:
    “Did the…?”
18:39:20 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    That’s a good question Brooks
18:39:28 Von  Dung-Lan Chen  an  Alle:
    Acq PO shows up in Inventory
18:39:29 Von  Maura Byrne  an  Alle:
    Reacted to "“Did the…?”" with 👍
18:39:42 Von  Maura Byrne  an  Alle:
    Reacted to "I think staff in eac..." with 👍
18:39:53 Von  Charlotte Whitt  an  Alle:
    Yes, Acquisition is now populated in Inventory
18:39:56 Von  Maura Byrne  an  Alle:
    Reacted to "From my perspective ..." with 👍
18:40:07 Von  Charlotte Whitt  an  Alle:
    acquisition data …
18:40:08 Von  Brooks Travis  an  Alle:
    I’m talking about changes in inventory (eg. Moving items/holdings to a new instance, etc.) being reflected in the relevant records in acq (orders, etc.)
18:40:22 Von  Brooks Travis  an  Alle:
    That’s separate from display of relationship data in the UI.
18:40:35 Von  Charlotte Whitt  an  Alle:
    no move — is still limping along
18:41:14 Von  Charlotte Whitt  an  Alle:
    UXPROD-1647 … if I remember correct
18:43:50 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    I’m afraid I’m going to have to drop off early today - apologies
18:44:51 Von  Sara Colglazier (MHC/5C)  an  Alle:
    $ also, I did not include it
18:46:31 Von  Laura Daniels  an  Alle:
    I think expectations are pretty much the same across domains
18:46:35 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    Apologies - I’ve got to go. Sorry 🙁
18:46:40 Von  Martina Schildt  an  Alle:
    Reacted to "Apologies - I’ve got..." with 👋
18:46:42 Von  Charlotte Whitt  an  Alle:
    Reacted to "I think expectations..." with 👍🏻
18:46:43 Von  Dung-Lan Chen  an  Alle:
    Reacted to "I think expectations..." with 👍
18:48:28 Von  Laura Daniels  an  Alle:
    We have expectations around this well documented for Inventory, I'll look for where that is
18:48:46 Von  Martina Schildt  an  Alle:
    Reacted to "We have expectations..." with 🙏
18:48:51 Von  Maura Byrne  an  Alle:
    Reacted to "We have expectations..." with 👍
18:49:03 Von  Maura Byrne  an  Alle:
    Replying to "We have expectations..."
    
    Awesome.  I’d love to see it.
18:49:42 Von  Laura Daniels  an  Alle:
    Replying to "We have expectations..."
    
    It's specifically around title searches:

Jira Legacy
serverSystem JiraJIRA
serverId01505d01-b853-3c2e-90f1-ee9b165564fc
keyMSEARCH-463

18:49:48 Von  Brooks Travis  an  Alle:
    All search in Perl regex only from here on out 😉
18:49:51 Von  Laura Daniels  an  Alle:
    Replying to "We have expectations..."
    
    expectations are different for keyword searching though
18:50:09 Von  Charlotte Whitt  an  Alle:
    mod-search us *
18:50:31 Von  Charlotte Whitt  an  Alle:
    use * :-)
18:50:38 Von  Maura Byrne  an  Alle:
    Reacted to "All search in Perl r..." with 😃
18:50:42 Von  Dung-Lan Chen  an  Alle:
    Is there a list of wild card symbols used for order related apps?!
18:50:56 Von  Charlotte Whitt  an  Alle:
    Sarah’s post-it
18:51:41 Von  Dung-Lan Chen  an  Alle:
    Sara, can I borrow your post-it notes?
18:53:46 Von  Laura Daniels  an  Alle:
    Yes, Maura -- there's what we expect, and then there's what we can live/work with
18:54:20 Von  Maura Byrne  an  Alle:
    Replying to "Yes, Maura -- there'..."
    
    I see it as fear of the curse of the Genie - you get what you ask for, but not what you want.
18:54:31 Von  Laura Daniels  an  Alle:
    Reacted to "I see it as fear of ..." with 💯
18:55:39 Von  Maura Byrne  an  Alle:
    💯 Zak
18:57:07 Von  Charlotte Whitt  an  Alle:
    Is that a settings page
18:58:23 Von  Brooks Travis  an  Alle:
    Adieu!
18:58:31 Von  Martina Schildt  an  Alle:
    Reacted to "Adieu!" with 👋
18:58:38 Von  Charlotte Whitt  an  Alle:
    Ghost text in the entry boxes should be aligned with, the way the user has decided to specify dates
19:00:47 Von  Maura Byrne  an  Alle:
    I think that’s a great idae.
19:00:51 Von  Maura Byrne  an  Alle:
    *idea
19:01:11 Von  Jana Freytag  an  Alle:
    👍

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