Page Comparison

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• Convener and notes: Martina Schildt
• Next meeting: 16 25 Jan 2023
• New and open Slack channel: #appinteraction_crossapp
  • all members are copied
  • old channel archived

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• FOLIO could build connectors into workflow managers
  • reshare and Jira are both already existing and could be used
• purchase requests are not yet existing in FOLIO - would be a good improvement in FOLIO but would have to be a FOLIO business object
• how does communication back to patron works
  • as soon as request gets to final status, patron receives an email automatically (or mail URL for electronic access)
• if requests comes in via email: librarian clicks on title in the email and does an amazon search
• training: no elaborate long-term training needed (depending on trainer, though)
• if Lehigh hadn't already used JIRA, they maybe would have gone for Trello, which seems slightly more user friendly 

Chat

...

• maybe would have gone for Trello, which seems slightly more user friendly 

Chat

00:02:46	Kristin Martin:	https://www.npr.org/2022/11/29/1139765292/one-tuscan-village-uses-wool-insulated-cooking-boxes-to-save-on-energy-costs
00:05:19	Owen Stephens:	6 degrees C here. Evening heating has just kicked in here. I keep it low during the day when everyone else is out 🙂
00:15:02	Charlotte Whitt:	The App Interaction SIG is recommending cross app functionality, so maybe we are one of the very important groups to be ’Public’ - and Open for everyone
00:15:32	Laura Daniels:	good point, Charlotte
00:22:25	Kristin Martin:	Perfectly appropriate to cancel a meeting as needed.
00:22:31	Owen Stephens:	Mainly I’m very happy when meetings are cancelled!
00:22:33	Owen Stephens:	🙂
00:22:45	Jana Freytag | VZG:	💯
00:23:07	Owen Stephens:	Especially this late in the day - I’m happy and I don’t feel guilty that anyone has got up especially early for it in the USA
00:23:24	Charlotte Whitt:	True Owen
00:25:43	Charlotte Whitt:	On Mondays I have a conflict. But if the Index Data meeting ends early, then I can join you
00:26:22	Kristin Martin:	Or Jenn Colt on using Prefect?
00:26:42	Kristin Martin:	Airflow and Prefect were discussed and demoed at an ARLEF meeting.
00:28:24	Martina Schildt | VZG:	I will try to organise that
00:28:32	Martina Schildt | VZG:	Seem to have mic issues
00:28:55	Jana Freytag | VZG:	sounded robotic 🤖
00:30:29	Kristin Martin:	Got another meeting!
00:30:42	Owen Stephens:	I have to go cook tea 🙂
00:31:12	Martina Schildt | VZG:	all good ideas
00:32:13	Martina Schildt | VZG:	For Monday I will try to organise the workflow presentation - if that I will organise one of the options

Transcript

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 18:02:34
Hi! Everyone as as always. Let's give people some more minutes to join, and then we can get started.

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 18:02:41
I think that's give them maybe 2 more minutes until 4 past the hour, and then we can start.

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 18:02:48
I've posted the link to the agenda in our chat.

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 18:02:51
And yeah.

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 18:02:55
We'll note the attendance in the time where we're waiting.

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 18:04:04
Okay. Then I did not finish noting the attendance, but that doesn't matter.

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 18:04:11
Let me share my screen, and we can have a short look on our agenda for today, and am very grateful.

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 18:04:20
After wishing everyone Happy New Year, that we have 2 guests here.

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 18:04:26
That's Daniel and Maccabe who are now today deading how they use Jira to do workflows at Lee High, and maybe just as a brief introduction after the wolf crown that we had last year in September we we thought that it might make sense to

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 18:04:47
Rediscover this whole workflow topic. There has been a lot of discussions like quite a while ago.

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 18:04:55
There have been youx concepts in the very beginning of a folio project, and it has always been something that was desired as a selling point of folio, like everyone once the workflow engine in in folio, and but other tasks and functionalities are always more important because libraries, needs the basic

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 18:05:20
Functional analogy. And so we decided that we want to to pick up the topic again.

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 18:05:27
And in our last meeting that was end of last year we had an demo by a Sebastian and Jeremy, who demoed the system Kamunda, which is an external workflow.

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 18:05:38
So you and we may have other just just discussions, and down most in the upcoming meetings.

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 18:05:45
That today we will have. Look at how this is being done in Jira.

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 18:05:53
And with that said, I would love to hand over to yeah, to to you guys, if you are ready, it would be great if you could start, and I will stop sharing my screen.

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 18:06:07
I will try to take minutes while you're demoing

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:06:12
Well, I'm gonna try to share my screen right now to do a presentation.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:06:17
On this side of my monitor. So originally this was a presentation that we did at the Charleston Conference last November, as you see, I've crossed out the conference and just added that this is the fully an app interaction Sig and this is our second version of this

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:06:34
Presentation, so I'm just gonna do a quick go through going through the slides.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:06:38
We can actually get to meet of doing this. So I'm Dan Wong.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:06:42
I'm the resource acquisitions manager here at Lehigh and Maccabe.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:06:45
Levine is a senior library application developer. So Yep, and he's right here with us.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:06:49
Hello!

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:06:53
So we're not. We're not missing anyone.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:06:56
So really this all begins as a as a story, it's a narrative.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:07:02
It's not just about developing an app. But it's about, how does this serve the entire library and you know we're talking about cross app interaction going across parts of you know, portfolio for different apps.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:07:14
And I'm thinking we we thought about this as a way to interact with the entire library.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:07:19
And this here is a picture of our interlibrary loan shelf here at Leh so you can see it.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:07:24
You know it's you know you have our staff people here.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:07:27
They they don't work in acquisitions, they don't necessarily work in any any of the of the sakes.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:07:32
You know. There's lots of diverse types of people working in the library, and you know, we've done a lot of ebook Pda.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:07:41
And you know, lots of other programs at Lehigh to try to address the fact that, hey?

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:07:45
Students want books that aren't necessarily in our collections.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:07:50
We have multiple interlibrary loans. How can we make it so that we are doing everything in the really organized way?

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:07:56
And what if you didn't need a specific app, or ios that you know you don't have time to implement like, say, Oh, yeah, this works in like circuitics.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:08:06
But that is to help some who's not a search at Linux Library, or if someone says, Well, I wish I could be in folio.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:08:13
But you know I'm still a Searchingtonics library right now.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:08:17
That doesn't. The fact that you know there's an app that in for specific platform doesn't help in this.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:08:25
So how could we do this with off the shelf technology really quickly?

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:08:29
And and that is the crux of why we did what we did so in the past.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:08:33
We've done, Jira as as a workful process for doing project management around the topic of E resource.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:08:41
Renewables like, Alright, you wanted to subscribe to elsewhere this year.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:08:44
What's the cost? How do we renew it? What are the approvals required?

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:08:47
How do you mediate that? And how do you have people from acquisitions cataloging, you know, instructional and and teaching and an outreach and a administration all collaborate into one single process?

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:09:00
So the rationale is, how, how, why don't we just take this to the next level?

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:09:05
And applied for our purchasing projects with, you know, single items so

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:09:13
We've always done this as a library, and I associate most libraries on this call.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:09:18
Can identify with the fact that we depend on patriot input, we've done so informally or in, you know, less coordinated ways.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:09:28
There's been a box where you could have put put a little piece of paper in.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:09:32
I want this book for the library. We have our Iliad, and you know you know, re-share type into library loan prep processes.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:09:40
We have, you know, website forms. So why not make it all go into the same place and have it be visible to to everyone?

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:09:48
So let's kinda do like a quick tour of this of this this picture.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:09:53
Here we have the interlibrary loan. Return slips like the little slip that come back in the book.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:09:59
When you have an Iol, or why not use a implicit hatred input?

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:10:04
Like alright! So we can see the history of all the loans we've we've had at Lehard.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:10:10
What should we do about those? What if we have lost items that we know are lost?

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:10:16
How do we know if we can buy them again? And and should we?

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:10:19
What a library as well! To put in requests! And what if you know patrons want to do the requests as well?

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:10:26
So the plan is for the application we have to do all these kinds of of of input.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:10:31
It's like here. Here's a picture of the piece of paper.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:10:34
Would you suggest this be added to the Leh libraries circle?

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:10:38
Yes or no. So we even have this option where someone sick who's at the front desk and say, Hey, let's just put in use the barcode reader, scan in the thing that you think it's gonna be a hit with with the students, or you see this thing.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:10:54
Come across the desk. What it's it's about capturing.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:10:57
That moment when something needs to be done without a massive, you know, need for infrastructure changes in in like, you know what what your technology stack is, and that's what Jira is letting us do.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:11:12
And you know if if you want librarians to, you know.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:11:16
Say, gave your browsing choice reviews to browsing Amazon.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:11:19
Why not have a way for it? Have a browser plugin where they could insert what they see as they see it into Jira.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:11:27
So, hey, you wanna buy this? Put it in

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:11:31
So you know it leads to a lot of different different types of requests that come in to different queues in it consolidates all of them into one place, so that the library selectors can move a request from one call into the to the next. One.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:11:49
I believe everyone here is, you know, pretty familiar with the idea of a a comb on board, right?

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:11:54
So the comb on board is just, you know. It's just a different way of looking at Jira in this context.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:11:59
You could see it as a list, and of course we all use Jira for polio development as as well.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:12:07
The important part is, it's not just, hey? We have the request.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:12:11
Now look at. It's also about building hooks in and from other platforms.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:12:16
And right now we're working with Claritin's oasis team on implementing their Api for purchasing.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:12:22
So let's say, you know, we want this book modern quantum.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:12:25
Mechanics. It helps nobody. We don't know what the thing actually costs.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:12:31
Where it's available from. So the so the declarative api implementation we're working on will help us decide if you want to buy this because it automatically shows what a library vendor is capable of doing for us and it it it's it's solved that problem of okay.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:12:48
You're you are a library. You want to know what's available.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:12:52
I'm going to call down now and try to figure out what the thing costs, or we could just do it programmatically.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:12:58
And I think there's a really good strong case for that call of implementation and folio as well, so that so this jura ticket enrichment is is a major part of why we've developed this.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:13:12
The other part of this is that we. This is what happens in the library all the time.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:13:18
Dan goes. I have a question about this this, this purchase.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:13:21
We don't want to make. Why are we doing this now?

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:13:23
So Dan calls up someone in the library or the or they call Dan, and then we and we we forget why we why, we had that whole conversation a couple of days later, what if you were able to just record that as as said to your comments, instead of going?

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:13:39
You know, picking up the phone, record your comments and and collaborate with everyone else in the library who has a stake in that particular item, or cool or or discussion.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:13:53
So we were able to respond to these concerns faster. Or what if you say, Hey, you know this book?

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:14:01
I'm looking at. I don't really care about it.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:14:03
What if something else in the library was like? Hey, you know, maybe we should, you know, point this out to someone else, and then that kind of collaboration makes it so.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:14:12
We don't really lose something where the patron asks us to buy something.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:14:16
One person said no, but someone else would would have said Yes, and here's why?

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:14:21
Because person one can't read person two's mind

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:14:25
So really, this, this is a, this is about making sure the whole library works together and our big idea moving forward is, allow any patient at the library to ask for any purchase.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:14:38
So this is, this is us at Charleston, said wouldn't it be nice if all the publishers got their act together and gave us away, and some open system to quickly assess the viability of something that we want to buy we would organically lean towards still in those requests and you know perhaps

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:14:56
even automatically. If we had those hooks into the app or into folio.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:15:02
So we knew what the cost well with the format. What are the e-book types? Is it?

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:15:07
No any book, central, one user or 3 user multiple users?

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:15:10
Or is it only in Epsco as one user? And you know, what is that?

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:15:15
What's that cost what's the what? What is the discount, you know?

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:15:18
And just making that decision, making process faster, because the agility of the library is part of its core mission.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:15:27
We don't just buy a Dda program, because that Dva program might not solve every student's needs.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:15:34
So so the sort of micro transactional aspect of libraries is very important.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:15:39
If you can't afford everything, how are you gonna manage those small transactions one by one by one, that make up your big collection versus having a set of small collections for each individual publisher for each individual platform?

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:15:54
So that agility is really where this app really shines.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:15:58
And we need vendors to really support that process, you know, so that you know we can, we can get get, get this done.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:16:06
So this person request platform is really about patient input assisting selectors and getting an action into place as soon as possible.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:16:14
And that collaboration is what makes this really powerful. And really, I think folio needs a similar process, because we don't need to keep reinventing.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:16:23
You know, rote purchasing. We need a facilitate, agile patron centric purchasing, and that's what really you know, keeps us alive as a library to make us really vibrant and really accept all kinds of different people different kinds of learning different kinds of of of you know

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:16:42
formats and materials and teaching styles. That's where we are. And but and that's why we developed this prp app

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:16:52
I'm a look at the chat right now, because to keep waiting for folios, mind reading. App.

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 18:16:56
It's about reading minds of library and

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:16:59
Laura, do you mean that librarians can't reinvinds already?

[Maccabee Levine] 18:17:00
Yeah, that will be. I'm not sure what to see.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:17:03
Well, I'd like to think that at least right now, Clarence, the lasers team knows how to read our mind because they're thinking, okay, well, we have off the buy it kind of stuff.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:17:12
Let's say, it's given the price. Is that all you need to like build a money printing machine?

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:17:18
I'm like pretty much you know that that's all it is.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:17:21
It's we want to buy everything really quickly that students ask for.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:17:25
We just need to know, you know in mass how much you know that's gonna cost.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:17:31
Can we get it? And then we go, okay, so that's under $200.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:17:35
And you know, let's just make that an automatic purchase.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:17:38
That's wonderful. Because, you know, it's that service standard is where, like a library really shines.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:17:45
Oh, AI! Good, good, good question they I think there will be a day when acquisitions stops a week, because AI will just do it all for us.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:17:56
That'll be in 30 years I'm hoping to transition to grounding at that point.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:18:03
But with that said, that can be when you give them a test drive with the application, and I'll stop sharing my screen.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:18:10
Now

[Maccabee Levine] 18:18:11
Yeah. Well, let me, you know. Let me just make a couple of of you know.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:18:16
Add on points to everything you know, can really explain. Certainly.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:18:19
Why we can't route this right? This is a workflow, as you explain, it really helps our staff talk to each other both, you know, the selectors between themselves.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:18:28
And services between themselves and selectors and services, to make better decisions that are in the interests of our patrons.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:18:36
And then, you know, he showed off some of those different sources of inputs.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:18:42
Whether it's from the return slips from your library alone, you know, requests, or just identifying.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:18:48
It's not, it's not AI, but just, you know, looking at if the same thing has been requested by patriots certain number of times over the last small number of years.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:18:56
Well, you know. Okay, there's a signal there as well.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:18:58
So trying to think of patriotism more broadly than just the form that we don't have on our website.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:19:04
Of of you know right now what do you? What do you want?

[Maccabee Levine] 18:19:08
And in in in the theme of, you know, app interaction.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:19:13
Jira is where everything ends up and in terms of those different sources there are integrations with a number of different platforms, folio, of course, being one of them.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:19:27
Dan mentioned that we have one of our clients that handles lost and missing, and now damaged items as well.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:19:33
If they're identified in folio as such in their item status or in statistical code, those are pulled in automatic needed to the workflow as replacement request.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:19:43
So that's one example of portfolio integration as well as for our consortium lending items and reshare.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:19:52
We now, thanks to the reshare team, have integration with with that as well, an alien as well.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:20:00
Dan discuss some of the supporting information or enrichment that we put into.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:20:07
Into our your request, and I'll I'll pull up one of the recent ones of of those.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:20:13
But where continuing to add to that as well, to try to be more more useful, and supply, you know, whatever the information is, it's gonna help the selectors.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:20:23
Yeah, make that make their decision someone to buy it. And the the tech services in terms of of sources I'll just share an example here from a recent juror that came in last month this would have been a lost line of replacement.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:20:41
And so some of the information here are okay. How many times do you decide to circulate?

[Maccabee Levine] 18:20:46
You know, in our current instance, do we have currently lost obviously we do have it because it's a lot of replacement.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:20:53
But we actually have 2 matches, which is more information. That's relevant to our selectors.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:20:57
In our consortium? Do we have any copies?

[Maccabee Levine] 18:21:01
So these use most folio queries. Obviously to tell, we have the holdings as well as Oc.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:21:06
W mitedu queries to check against our consortium holdings, links to things like Google scholar.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:21:14
And then, as Dan described, we have integration with a number of different sources, to see if we can, W.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:21:22
What the pricing might be. So Amazon, not a place that we generally want to buy from, but certainly useful place to get pricing and when it's available, direct, remote access books, we added very recently, is a data source I've just been working today as on what to refer to our oasis pricing integration

[Maccabee Levine] 18:21:44
We also are working with a couple of other vendors who've expressed interest in getting both print and email Api's in here as well.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:21:53
So one of those really worked out. How is he ringcentral?

[Maccabee Levine] 18:21:55
So, so that'll be exciting to get. I hopefully you know, number 2 formats.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:22:03
If you want one simultaneous use, or in simultaneous uses, that kind of thing, and the page that I think I know.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:22:12
Dan shared this in the in the slide

[Maccabee Levine] 18:22:18
Whoops. What if I spell things correctly?

[Maccabee Levine] 18:22:25
Maybe I spelled that right. Someone can try typing clicking on that and see if it opens up.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:22:30
But that list, some of the other, some of the other integrations.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:22:35
If you scroll down to supporting information, you'll see some of the different integration platforms that we have so far.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:22:41
This is really you know, to the heart of that attraction that this is.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:22:46
This is Middleware. And so even where it becomes more useful, the more different platforms interact with and so that's that's a continually expanding list as well.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:22:59
I and I demoed the jira a little bit.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:23:03
I'll just show off, you know, one of the examples of one of the calls that people are a fan of which is our our barcode scanner.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:23:14
So when we have oh, purchase a quest! Sorry we have Intro library loan or a, and we share.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:23:28
Take it. We have

[Maccabee Levine] 18:23:32
There we go, our return slips, and they have barcodes at the top, so our staff can just take that barcode scan.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:23:39
What's at the top I don't have my scanner attached here, so I'm just gonna pretend that this was the barcode that they scanned in and you know, pulls up just to make sure that this is what the user was requesting the the library.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:23:55
Staff members. Yeah, if, though, if the if the patron happened to scribble down any notes on this like, please buy this in print, or I love this book or this was really useful for my dissertation, or whatever, then they could type in the picture comment, hit request item it's, gonna go straight into part 0

[Maccabee Levine] 18:24:13
Dan also showed off the the librarian client I'll just demo that as well.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:24:21
I like to go to choice reviews. This example. One of our librarians, our humanities, librarian as a fan of reading choice reviews.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:24:28
But the idea! Here is the librarian could be on any particular web page.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:24:34
That happens to list the book that they want us to purchase and when I say Web Page, if if you know Gmail is a web page, it it could be a request that comes in by email or outlook or whatever so they select the title, they use a a plugin that I found in the

[Maccabee Levine] 18:24:51
Chrome store to search Amazon for that title. Amazon is only being used as a pass through here.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:24:55
We're not actually buying the thing from Amazon, at least not necessarily click into the book.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:25:00
And then we have via temporary script a little button that shows up here where the librarian can then put in a request right away.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:25:10
Say, yeah, put that to my penny review queue.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:25:12
And I'm gonna look at that later on. And you know, second, we actually get it.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:25:17
And budget code charge to Dan's per, you know something like that.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:25:23
And it's met and that will go straight into here as well just as a as a couple of examples there.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:25:33
The idea is just to make it as easy as possible to get these request in and to broaden our thinking both about where we get requests from, where we where we get patriot interest from, how we identify that, and then making it as easy as possible through Jira, through those enrichments

[Maccabee Levine] 18:25:51
To actually process that transaction and and make it happen.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:25:56
The one final thing I'll I'll describe briefly is just the way that we are using. Jira is a pretty simple workflow

[Maccabee Levine] 18:26:08
Just 5 statuses, everything that comes in more or less because it's new column.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:26:15
Librarians. Once a request is approved, of course they move it.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:26:20
The the selector just moves it to the approved column.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:26:23
If they decline it, of course, if it's been approved, then once it's in the process, then it's available for access.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:26:28
It goes on shelf, and the only bit of complexity here is pending review.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:26:34
That's essentially a bucket holding tech when a request comes in and the librarians don't want to make a decision on immediately, but they want to hold off on it.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:26:43
They can put it in the view, and the the main reason we did that is that there's one bit of automation here after a certain amount of time, that something is sticking stuck in the new bucket.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:26:54
If no one has taken any action on it, it is automatically moved to the approved bucket by a by by agreement with our selectors, and that may vary based on how the request came in.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:27:04
If it was something that was an explicit patron request, or if it was something.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:27:09
For example, last night that was discovered, you know, and replacement is suggested pending review allows them to interrupt that process and say, I'm gonna think about it later, or in the case of many of our librarians, they may have a lot of requests.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:27:23
But limited budget, and they want to think about them all together, closer to the end of the fiscal year.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:27:28
Quarter, or something like that. So Penning review gives them a way to do that as well but it's a relatively simple workflow that that doesn't complicate things too much for for them.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:27:41
I think I will leave it there, and Dad and I happy to talk through functional, technical, anything else

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:27:50
I have one other small thing to add here, and this is some feedback from the Charleston Conference.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:27:55
I got no off Channel, so I want to look at this whole yellow, you know.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:28:02
Easy librarians, decision making page here, so could everyone see this now.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:28:08
So it says, No, you know this is the workflow.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:28:12
This is where library decision happens, and this is where the intervention of the traditional subject library comes into play.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:28:19
The biggest fear I hear at every library I talk to this about is that they're scared.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:28:24
Just lead to uncontrolled buying. We'll blow the budget in the week. Every student will ask for ever.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:28:31
Last thing ever made in. No, that's not what happens, cause they're doing that, anyway.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:28:36
It's just called interlocking loan. It's called, you know, the Canopy Request.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:28:39
Form. Hey! We all probably know about that one and there are all these things where they're already doing it.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:28:46
In 10 different places. One of all went to one place for you could monitor it.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:28:52
You could actually mediate that decision and learn about the acquisitions process, you know, and what goes on, you know, at the library to make those things happen that there's actually a a politically savvy way to manage that whole process.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:29:09
Where everyone, this this process feels really comfortable. Yeah, the deep, our bow, as you know, our big boss, you might know him.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:29:16
He's pretty big in some library circles. You may have heard of him once in a while.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:29:20
Boas really likes the idea that if a student or a professor wants something, it's being handled.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:29:27
The front desk. Staff. Love that they're being heard.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:29:30
That, hey? I've seen this with my eyes and my hands so many times.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:29:36
I'm being listened to finally, and the technical services acquisition staff are thinking all right.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:29:41
So this really helps me keep track of all these different things and makes my job easier.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:29:48
And the subject librarian, you know, really gets assessed to see this process, and you know and control it, and helps moderate it while collaborating with all these people in ways where there may not have been a a traditional channel for for doing that so it's really also not just app for decision making and buying and

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:30:12
Workflows. It's also an app that really fosters, I think, inclusion and conversation. And I think that's really the meat of what an open source project should be doing

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 18:30:30
I can only say, Wow, I mean, this looks really really great.

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 18:30:36
And Laura says and shed well said, absolutely

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 18:30:43
So any questions already from from the group, or any commence

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 18:30:55
One question for me. I mean, this really looks like it works perfectly.

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 18:31:00
Do you feel you have the need to have anything in folio, any workflow engine?

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 18:31:07
Or do you think for you couldn't do any better?

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 18:31:09
We are. We are fine with what we have

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:31:13
You know I spoke to Sebastian about that at Charleston, and he was very much enthusiastic about the idea of doing something in folio that mimicked this.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:31:24
You know, he his idea he developed in parallel it wasn't like we went to him.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:31:28
He goes. Great idea. Dan and Maccabe was. He was really thinking about something like this?

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:31:34
To facilitate workflows in folio. So what I said to him was I don't think this is all about recreating this in full ago, but take the idea here we have here, you know, Sebastian, why doesn't for you officially, build hooks you know Apis, and

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:31:54
Connectors into a workflow manager that makes sense for the whole folio community to use.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:32:01
I think you already have one. It's called Project Re.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:32:05
Share. There's Jira here. You could do some kind of con bond, setup or fellow, but that's a community decision on how to.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:32:14
You know, organized the work in folio in a way that is across all its different modules, because what we have here is about, you know, improving work between different applications and different departments.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:32:28
But that cross module part of folio. I think that is a a market-changing kind of way of thinking about it.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:32:38
Yeah, and let me. Let me just add on to that a little bit.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:32:42
So, yeah, there's there's lots of advantages, certainly, to have in workflow as a native solution in folio.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:32:50
But there's also lots of advantages simply integrating with external tools.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:32:53
We use Jira for this because it does the job, and we have a sign license to Jira, although I developed it on the free version, the free conversation there, you know, you can do 100% of what this project does without paying paying it.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:33:09
A dollar. It's, you know, the Gerry integration, though, is a hook.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:33:16
It also integrates with another 10 bad tool that I found an open source, one called Recipe Board, which is a pretty awful tool.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:33:24
But the point is, you know, to prove the the interoperability of it.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:33:28
Trello again would be a great destination as well.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:33:30
And yes, your folio had built in workflow.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:33:34
Then that would be a great integration as well, and would certainly make certain parts of it easier, and and some some of the integrations we have already done with folio would be easier if both, if the work itself is in full room Hi I should mention you know whenever we talk about workflow capability.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:33:55
And folio. We also talk about business objects. The the core business object.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:33:59
Here you purchase request is not a concept that exists right now in folio, a purchase request is not in order.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:34:06
It's much more prototypical than an order, and may result in an order. Sorry?

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:34:08
Primordial, primordial.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:34:10
Yeah. Yeah. Primordial. Thank you. That's a better word than an order may result in order it may not result in order, and may result in several orders.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:34:17
It may be a request for a print book that's written to an order for ebook, or or who does, and it's also so it's it's yeah.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:34:27
It's not an order, of course, folio has a request.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:34:28
Object to terms of circulation, but this is a very different piece.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:34:31
That awesome. So there would have to be some capability for constructing customized business objects, or or this would have to be it for new business, subject for to work native

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:34:46
I just wanna say the fully flushed out, the business model for this is a is a really good one.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:34:51
So there's there's always been this sort of intangible secondary market on college campuses, of how students and faculty acquire their their materials, whether it's, you know, you know, downloading a movie illegally, or you know, getting a book from a second hand bookstore right?

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:35:08
So a lot of our vendor partners have always been concerned about that secondary market, and how to meet capture that into the library.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:35:16
You know, you know, vendor space. I think this this whole model of doing, you know, purchase or to sort, you know, purchase requests helps.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:35:28
Bring that money, that revenue into the publishers, hands in a way that really leverages how the what, how the library is really good at it.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:35:36
We don't just buy it, you know, for one person we buy for the whole campus that's a mutually beneficial interaction of bringing people in from the fringes into the library.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:35:49
Buying more things which improves the library, and also increases the publishers, or, you know, platform owners bottom line.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:35:56
So I think there is a really strong case to do this, not just to improve how you know all different modules and fully interact, or how fully you interact with the with external systems.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:36:08
But just improving that library community aspect of you know that this is what makes the library relevant.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:36:14
This is why we exist. How do we make that simpler?

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:36:19
As in the question I asked to you here in, and this did.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:36:23
The Sig is, why doesn't follow? You'll do something along those lines.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:36:26
And what would make it uniquely folio to do that?

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:36:30
Because what I have here is to facilitate, you know, a very specific set of, you know, patron interactions and librarian interactions.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:36:37
But how would that benefit the larger, open source community, that kind of thinking and welcome to the folio, you know, really powerful

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 18:36:59
Charlotte, I saw that you wanted to ask or say something, because you are muted

[Charlotte Whitt] 18:37:02
And yeah, but but Macgabe addressed because my questions were related to how information then get into the acquisition apps, and then how that next step was handled.

[Charlotte Whitt] 18:37:23
So what? You you answer that then I only have one more thought, and that is how, when a request has been decided that we are, gonna handle it in your system, and then when it gets to the libraries librarians, and they then can find we haven't digital version, of this, you know in

[Charlotte Whitt] 18:37:53
Yeah, in the agreement, that or something. How is the this communicated back to the patron who had this request

[Maccabee Levine] 18:38:03
Yeah. So once, the item is acquired, and here, either here physically, on the shelf or here digitally, as an accessible in the catalog.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:38:14
At that point the the one last step for the check services staff is they go into Jira and they there's one field where they put the instance.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:38:22
Id. The new requirement. And there's an up a process that keeps an eye on that.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:38:30
And what, when, and when, as soon as the request gets transitioned to that final status, the on shell status, it gets that instance Id, and then it emails the picture.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:38:43
And automatically, if there was a patron who requested it with a link to catalog a record for it in our case, that's view fine.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:38:50
So I'm just using the instance. Id that's that's the instance.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:38:54
Hr. D. For us is the if it's an electronic item, we just do the folio to look up for that item.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:39:01
Get the electronic access, URL and email that to the to the client saying, Here's here's the URL that you know, for the book, requested

[Charlotte Whitt] 18:39:10
Thank you.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:39:13
I also want to add that the initial prototype version of this application that was built in in Iliad, not by us by by the Ids project.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:39:22
It allowed Lehigh to essentially discontinue large collections, purchases the total collection of purchases we do was, you know, it was greatly developed right because of various budgetary issues.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:39:34
This allowed us to not do approval plans anymore allowed us to not do.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:39:39
DNA is a lot of some really just move away from this notion of doing large.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:39:43
You know, convenient to us, purchases convenient to us processes.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:39:48
This is harder, but this is better, and we've gone to the point where our pictures are.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:39:55
Expect, you know. Hey, I haven't gotten this thing that I asked for from you guys 2 days ago.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:40:00
What gives that? That's weird to them now, like this is about us being this not just being agile, but also being really fast.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:40:09
The express part of this. You know, type of application is what really makes our patients trust us more so.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:40:17
We're facilitating the human aspect of the library.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:40:20
I'm not some, you know, systems genius like Maccabe, but I know I'd like to think I understand the human part of how library functions

[Maccabee Levine] 18:40:35
I'll just do a quick, a quick request, flash!

[Maccabee Levine] 18:40:38
Plug, you know, if if there are folks who see potentially use case for this at your institution, please do reach out it is so ridiculously configurable and it but it helps us to understand, like, you know, a library says oh, we might use it if it does this that helps us to say oh, we didn't think

[Maccabee Levine] 18:40:52
that when we had a lot of good conversations at at Charleston with library, she said, oh, it'd be cool if you had a client that did this.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:41:00
And we go. Oh, that's another one that we can.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:41:02
We can look at, you know, and so we're having those conversations make it more useful for us, and obviously it's open source.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:41:10
So you know, we can make useful for for you guys as well

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 18:41:16
Yeah, thank you. And I mean, you will receive, I think, more questions because we had some folks who were very interested but couldn't attend today.

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 18:41:24
So wait for that. And now I see Kristen and Danglars

[Kristin Martin] 18:41:32
Hey, yeah, I was real interested to see this and and listening to your comments on it.

[Kristin Martin] 18:41:40
And would like to share this with our head of acquisitions, who may or may not even have seen this at Charleston.

[Kristin Martin] 18:41:48
I'm not sure we have a lot of stuff going on, and you know I can't say when we would want to do something like this, but the idea of doing it is really intriguing to me, because we have on several past occasions tried to look at ways to streamline request

[Kristin Martin] 18:42:09
Workflows and to merge it in with Il.

[Kristin Martin] 18:42:12
And we've we've been rebuffed, but we haven't looked at it since.

[Kristin Martin] 18:42:14
Covid so, and I think you know some of what I what I've heard is like that concern that, Dan, that you were sharing like patrons, will ask for blah blah blah for dummies, and we're just going to buy it, and why, would we do stuff like

[Kristin Martin] 18:42:31
That. But it, you know. I think, that this may help. Oh, the address that concern!

[Kristin Martin] 18:42:37
And then you've got some experience with it. I don't see us moving away from approval plans.

[Kristin Martin] 18:42:43
I see this more as a way to complement some of the larger collection building that we're doing.

[Kristin Martin] 18:42:48
But getting that being really responsive to use our needs. And and so so I, are you gonna share the presentation in the notes because I can send her this link, or if you have the Charleston presentation.

[Kristin Martin] 18:43:04
I don't. You know. Whichever way kind of works better, I'd like to just put this out there on her radar

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:43:10
I'm gonna add a link to the Google Doc, the Google slides for this in the app interaction.

[Kristin Martin] 18:43:16
Great

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:43:16
Sig Channel, and you know I know approval. Plan killing is not really trendy right now.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:43:22
I'm just saying that this one is something you could do with.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:43:24
Do with with this app? I started to think, if we are ever in a world where we have to do this instead of you know what we currently do, you're right.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:43:34
This is complementary, and you know I've been surprised by what's come through.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:43:42
Our request forms, and I think it's a lot of has to do with how it's presented to the patron, and that web design aspect of how you make the form appear, and how you encourage people to give proper input into the form matters we're scheduling a meeting with our head of

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:43:57
The collections team in, I think. 2 weeks. Where we're gonna talk over what that should look like and how to collapse.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:44:05
All of the disparate forms we have into this one.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:44:08
So it's there is a ux, you know, aspect to that. Ha!

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:44:13
Has to be thought about very thoughtfully before implementing and I'll conclude by saying the 4 Dummy's books can actually be really good, and they're published by John Wiley, which is one of our best publishers.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:44:23
Right in academia. So what's wrong with the for Dummy's books?

[Maccabee Levine] 18:44:27
I I want to add one thing, have a call. Sorry. Just go ahead

[Kristin Martin] 18:44:28
Well, I mean

[Kristin Martin] 18:44:32
Go! Ahead. No, I'm just gonna say, you know, we we just have, like we have our certain cultural snobbiness factor at Chicago that were we have been actually working to overcome it.

[Kristin Martin] 18:44:46
You know, we did recently start this this rental collection of popular fiction, and I know when I was first hired here that would have happened.

[Kristin Martin] 18:44:56
Selectors would say things like over my dead body. So you know, things have have changed so

[Maccabee Levine] 18:45:01
Well, not that I'm endorsing this, but it's a feature that was requested here, too.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:45:07
One of the integrations they didn't mention is so when a request comes in, and you know we we know who the person was requested.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:45:15
For example, in this case was a return I/O. And so we have for billiards, or from resharing the username slash email address of the requester, which means we can do it.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:45:24
Ldap, look up and say, I apologize for sharing private information.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:45:27
Here, please everybody forget who this is, but you know you know it's a graduate student versus a fact with a number person undergraduate students and keep us.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:45:37
The department, right? So the idea there is. If you are selector, who cares about such things that you only want to get a request if it's from these 2 faculty members who merit an opinion on that particular item, well, okay, you can you can be that person or or not let the

[Maccabee Levine] 18:45:54
Selector with that session

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 18:45:59
Thank you. Then Danglars

[Dung-Lan Chen] 18:46:03
Thank you for the presentation. I I really like the idea of being able to streamline the acquisition process a little bit more, but I have a couple of questions.

[Dung-Lan Chen] 18:46:16
So first of all is the gir process. I was curious when you first rolled out this, how the librarians and staff involved in this process, what their reaction were.

[Dung-Lan Chen] 18:46:30
If they haven't been. If you guys have been using jury as part of the workflow, and what kind of training and that's involved.

[Dung-Lan Chen] 18:46:40
And then my other question is some of the requests came in.

[Dung-Lan Chen] 18:46:44
We get a lot of request faculty forward whatever they send to their subject.

[Dung-Lan Chen] 18:46:49
Librarian. So if the request came in through email from faculty, how do you guys handle it in this part of your work flow? How do you fold it into that process? Thank

[Maccabee Levine] 18:47:01
Let me ask, let me answer the second one, and then I'll give you the first one.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:47:05
If that's okay with the library, if the request came in from email to faculty.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:47:08
So there's 2 answers to that. The librarian client that I demoed briefly that went through Amazon.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:47:15
You know our email is Gmail. So if a librarian gets a request through email, they can, they can just select that title right.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:47:21
There an email right click on it. Do the Amazon search and then put in the request that way we do have one of our librarians who's actually interested in doing something a little bit more intentional with faculty requests.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:47:33
And she's thinking through what the process might be.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:47:36
But it could be using. I mean, we all know their websites that allow librarian to, you know.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:47:42
Send a faculty number a list of potential titles, you know, but different different ways to approach that idea where the library presents possible titles to a faculty number, they might check a few and automate those as entry points.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:47:54
As well, Dan, I'll let you address the librarians. Mcclain. Nice with Jira

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:48:00
Do you training questions and interest to 1 one? Because I really think, Jira, you know, it's effective.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:48:06
If it's effectively depends on you know how you set it up and who does the training.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:48:12
We had a very good talk by one of our help desk staff about how Juror works for our librarian team.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:48:20
He was able to really distill down to about like a 20 to 30 min presentation.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:48:24
It it. It was not some elaborate, you know. Multi week trading course.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:48:28
You know, Jira, you know, when it comes down to.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:48:31
It's about learning how to make a comment, how to tag someone, how to use the the at someone, you know in a comment, and how to push a couple of buttons of what's the next status in in a workflow it goes from you know your request to you know request you know you

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:48:47
Know under under assessment, and so forth, just like we do in our portfolio, you know, juror, in instances.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:48:54
So it's it's not a massive training expenditure.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:48:58
It's really about being thoughtful about who the audience is, what their current knowledge is.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:49:04
And, you know, configuring during the way that really speaks to your library.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:49:10
There is no magic bullet about Jira. All new to all new technologies, have some hiccups, but you know if you're thinking about doing this, you know, we could give a little talk on it and kind of see your conversation of this is how we did it now why don't you tell us.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:49:27
About what makes your library different from from ours, and that's part of just being thoughtful and collaborating with other people in the community.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:49:37
Does that make sense? But what

[Dung-Lan Chen] 18:49:40
Yes, I guess I I my fault. I'll question this Jira is, after all, different, and railroads.

[Dung-Lan Chen] 18:49:47
You new technologies. You're also allergic to.

[Dung-Lan Chen] 18:49:50
So how do you convince everybody? Oh, that this this is beneficial, or this is a good.

[Dung-Lan Chen] 18:49:59
And then or did you get any kind of resistance? I don't want to use your.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:50:02
Huh!

[Dung-Lan Chen] 18:50:02
I want to go back to my email so I can keep track that kind of stuff

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:50:06
We I talk had a very good talk with our university library, and Mr.

[Charlotte Whitt] 18:50:11
Hmm.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:50:11
Bo, as not of menace, and he said, This is now the tech the heck we're gonna use, and this is where we are moving.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:50:16
So the administrator buy in the key part. If they say this is what we're doing.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:50:23
This is now what we are doing. It wasn't driven solely from acquisitions.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:50:28
It was a thoughtful process by the whole leadership team that we want to use.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:50:32
Jira to track some of these really difficult, thorny issues in the library.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:50:37
Whether it's, you know, the renewals of Elsevier, or you know these purchase purchase request platform.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:50:43
You know orders, or is it no how our help desk answers questions that mute?

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:50:50
We were committed as an institution. To say, we need to look at these in a code, you know, in this way, where everyone's involved, it is transparent, and we do get back to the patron and order the vendor etc.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:51:03
So it needs that that that you know, library buy in the technology.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:51:07
Training is not difficult, but the buy-in doesn't exist.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:51:11
Of course nobody listens.

[Dung-Lan Chen] 18:51:15
So so sounds like your school has been. This Jira has widely applied use, and not just library settings.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:51:15
Pub

[Dung-Lan Chen] 18:51:25
They in like you mentioned help desk. So there's this wider application already in place

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:51:30
There there was when we used it first, you know, a little bit prior to this application to study the else of your renewals and the big E Resource packages it was like pulling teeth.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:51:42
Nobody wanted to teach use. It was like, this is terrible like, why would you do this let's just do the old way in the Google sheets and access.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:51:48
And all these other things. So let's just do it in like Epsco.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:51:52
That's and I was like, alright. Well, there's only 2 acquisitions, staff.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:51:58
Let me talk to the boss about this, and see what we can do.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:52:00
And he said, No, no, you're doing it this way. Now.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:52:03
This makes a lot of sense. This is gonna help us as as as a whole team team, being the entire library.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:52:09
And once that happened, that was it. Like, this is how we are doing it.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:52:15
And they were growing pains. But everyone learned that just helped, and it means that, you know, if something goes wrong, it's written down.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:52:23
And now it's all Dan's fault. So you know it's good for you know other people to use, because it it adds that accountability.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:52:32
And once that part gets into people's brains, they go.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:52:36
Oh, so this means that, you know, you know this helps me at my job.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:52:41
Keep track of things, who did what? And now, since I wrote it down, that means everyone else can see it, and I'm no longer the soul responsibility.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:52:51
And I'm just less stressed out now. And I think that's the magic

[Maccabee Levine] 18:52:53
So.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:52:56
I I I came, you know I I sort of working on this after Dan had already won that back. Right?

[Maccabee Levine] 18:53:02
So it's not an answer to the question exactly, but I want to emphasize that the silver line here is that there really hasn't been anyone complaining about about 0 with this.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:53:09
It's been so so obvious even to them. And and even they're probably, you know, everybody in any group there's a range of people who are open to do change, and you know, more resistant to change.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:53:20
But but there's been no, there's been some questions. How do I do this?

[Maccabee Levine] 18:53:24
About that. But no one has really been resistant because first of all, the collaboration aspect is obvious.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:53:31
You know the the asking questions of each other has worked really well.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:53:35
The enrichment of saving them. Time, we had one librarian, who, with every single request they were copying and pasting that into several different websites like Google Scholar to check.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:53:43
You know, if it was well, what let's just give them like the utility of it just became super super obvious.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:53:52
And yeah, G. Work was already in place. That Lehigh?

[Maccabee Levine] 18:53:56
Yes, Kristin, as as that explained, we do have a a paid so.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:54:02
But we did. I implemented this first again with the cloud free version.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:54:05
It worked just fine. I would love if you know, if if if we hadn't already been using Jurad Lee, I might have gone with Trello instead.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:54:14
It's it seems like slightly user, friendlier. I would love to work with another university that's already using Trello or another cannon, or to build in the hooks because there's nothing that requires the only the only features of a can then more that are required.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:54:27
Here. You know the ability to create issues. Obviously, the ability to transition them from a status to another.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:54:33
String fields and loose paragraph comments.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:54:37
That's it. You know. Any, any, any platform to be able to support that?

[Maccabee Levine] 18:54:44
What I've noticed with the open source platforms out there is that almost all of them support all of that for free, including comments, except for custom fields and the premium based products.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:54:57
If you want to do custom fields, even Trello, you know that's that's when they want you to pay 5 or $10 a month.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:55:01
But I will still say, even for the not free comments, even for the not free products.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:55:06
They're not necessarily not expensive, depending on how your license them, le High, we have a locally hosted Jira, so that probably affects the pricing as well.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:55:17
But yeah, I mean, I've never used teams for for this kind of thing, but that would be, you know, everybody's got a Microsoft license, right?

[Maccabee Levine] 18:55:24
So, that would be a really interesting thing to look at as well.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:55:28
Truly, if there's if there's a campus who?

[Maccabee Levine] 18:55:32
Where Jira is the sticking point. I would love to learn about that and see, you know.

[Maccabee Levine] 18:55:36
Prove it with trello, or something else

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 18:55:39
Charlotte

[Charlotte Whitt] 18:55:40
Yeah, and and mine is not so much a a question. It's about that, I'm thinking.

[Charlotte Whitt] 18:55:45
How can we make you know everybody in the community? All libraries who has implemented this implemented polio aware about?

[Charlotte Whitt] 18:55:57
That's this is, yeah, a solution.

[Charlotte Whitt] 18:56:03
And it is working very well, fully high. So I'm thinking, where could we documented as kind of tips and tricks?

[Charlotte Whitt] 18:56:11
How can you improve your polio? Use? Make a page on our wiki, and I don't know if it should be under tips and tricks, or it should be, for we have have for each of our apps, or it is mere more belonging under app interaction, sick or fold your implementers.

[Charlotte Whitt] 18:56:32
But I but here we are, 13 people at this meeting, and we all feel that this could be.

[Charlotte Whitt] 18:56:40
Really useful for both libraries who have supplemented for you and future libraries, and and I don't know the answer.

[Charlotte Whitt] 18:56:50
But I definitely can see a good as that. We could get this out to many more people

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:56:51
Okay.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:57:00
I have an idea. They came at a happy hour in Charleston.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:57:05
Let me tell the story. So I was at the I was at the declarative Happy hour, trying to figure out how to get them to implement their Api with us, so that we get the pricing for all the books, not sure why Eps goes with a slower mover on this one but anyway, the thing.

[Charlotte Whitt] 18:57:06
Yeah.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:57:19
Is, I talked to some people was saying, Oh, yeah, we're gonna go work with with Alma now.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:57:24
I said, Well, what about me? You know, Mr. Foley, I'm the only folio guy here, and they're like, well, you know.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:57:31
What's the big reason I should implement fully, I said, well, we just did this talk about the Prp and why open systems work that way.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:57:39
And they're like, well, we didn't know that we didn't know.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:57:43
That's one of the benefits of open systems. It's just kind of creative thinking.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:57:47
But it's too late now. No one pulled us that.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:57:49
That's how the open system worked. I guess there's been a lot of selling about the the openness of you know folio and how it's great and how it's competitive.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:57:57
But I think the sort of a this could go under all the things you already mentioned Charlotte as dong dong, Len said, but I think this it could also go under a here's an example of a community driven project separate from you.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:58:13
Know, the core project. Make. This is what full yield does for your for your library.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:58:18
It encourages you to create, and the creations you make are usable by other libraries, and the creations.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:58:26
Other libraries make also helps you to potentially. So I will put it under all those other other areas.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:58:32
But also this, a. Why you should implement. I think it's a great way of saying this is all you know.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:58:37
I like to say off the shelf technology. I mean, Mac can be able to screw me up that with the meal on technical level.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:58:44
But this is something that says, here's example of it.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:58:48
It going beyond just the Lsp, this is about your library's culture.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:58:53
This is about your library's people. This is about the people that you serve, and this is how an open system facilitates that because we couldn't do this with Almo.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:59:02
We'd have to have to have their sign up, and every step the process, like just to check, to like circ history on something.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:59:08
So portfolio. There's that openness and that open.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:59:12
This helps you control the process, which is exactly what the paid system doesn't want you to to to do.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:59:20
So you want to do folio now they're like that's what this girl was having glass of white line with me said to be honest.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:59:30
No, that that is, that is incredibly a a very different way of thinking.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:59:36
But it is fascinating if folio had a workflow manager from day one we would have gone with it.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:59:43
But we didn't. And I said, Can I share your name with?

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:59:46
You know, you know, Kristin Martin and Sebastian David.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 18:59:49
She was like, no, absolutely not. You're not allowed to do that.

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 18:59:58
Yeah.

[Charlotte Whitt] 18:59:59
I can only agree. 100%

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 19:00:01
I was also promised that workful manager by Sebastian would we implemented, and that did not happen.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 19:00:10
That is why we, we, we, we built this

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 19:00:14
Laura

[Kristin Martin] 19:00:14
Let me try

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 19:00:16
I know it's it's difficult. But but but the tech exists elsewhere.

[Kristin Martin] 19:00:19
It is.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 19:00:21
We don't have to recreate it. So we just sell Foli and say, Hey, this works with your favorite workflow manager and at your log that you already use.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 19:00:30
It takes all these things from fully that you already know that people are doing luck with my hand on.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 19:00:35
Then it pulled in. The apps go or clever pricing, and you at that.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 19:00:41
Now it's a process. It's not complicated to implement.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 19:00:44
It's just a matter of, hey? Now that we've done this, where do we go from?

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 19:00:49
Here? How do we collaborate? Hey? Maybe it's a you know, that looks like, you know.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 19:00:53
You have a little hook into, you know, product, re, share.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 19:00:57
Now you say, okay, the better project rehear, you know, which is a folio enable platform you know.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 19:01:03
If you can connect it, you know. In theory you see, this is the end.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 19:01:06
Come up 5 times across the whole consortium. No, pops up in your local prp.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 19:01:10
Instance, and says, Hey, you know your library has had this thing happened before a lot of times, maybe.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 19:01:15
You should buy it, maybe just shouldn't even need a patron interaction.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 19:01:19
They're sort of just quiet, implicit need to control our data.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 19:01:24
So I think that is a big selling point that folio could help you control your data whoever controls the data controls the conversation.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 19:01:33
Whoever controls the conversation probably saves slash, makes them the most money.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 19:01:38
However, you wanna market that idea

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 19:01:41
Yeah, and I mean, maybe that's something that we can.

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 19:01:43
Can really continue talking about in our upcoming meetings, because this is an interesting idea, and I see, Danglars, I see your hand.

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 19:01:52
We're 1 min over time. So you have the last word or center

[Dung-Lan Chen] 19:01:54
Sorry. Just quick. Question. What happens if the pricing doesn't exist, say such as all the print titles does?

[Dung-Lan Chen] 19:02:02
What, what would the result be in that instance

[Maccabee Levine] 19:02:05
So all the

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 19:02:05
Someone would get Ping from acquisition. Oh, go ahead and be sorry

[Maccabee Levine] 19:02:08
Also all the enrichment of your asynchronous, so the ones that succeed succeed in the link that don't don't.

[Maccabee Levine] 19:02:12
But we have a number of different sources so hopefully, whichever ones you enable.

[Maccabee Levine] 19:02:17
Looking at Amazon looking at a waste, is looking at hopefully.

[Maccabee Levine] 19:02:21
Ingram, hopefully, Goby, hopefully, you book Central, you know I probably missed one or 2 in there. Hopefully.

[Maccabee Levine] 19:02:27
You'll have pricing for someone with some links where?

[Maccabee Levine] 19:02:29
Where where you can, where you can buy

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 19:02:35
I thank you so much. This was so interesting. And I'm really happy that we had this presentation.

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 19:02:42
So, yeah, thanks much. And have a good day. Everyone. Because unfortunately, we are over time and need to stop this discussion now.

[Martina Schildt | VZG] 19:02:51
But yeah, have a good good day, everyone. Thank you.

[Kristin Martin] 19:02:53
And you have, good evening. Okay, bye.

[Dung-Lan Chen] 19:02:54
Thank you. No, thank you. Goodbye. Bye.

[Laura Daniels] 19:02:54
Thank you.

[Maura Byrne] 19:02:55
Yeah.

[Daniel Huang, Lehigh University] 19:02:56
Thanks for having us

[Maccabee Levine] 19:02:58
Thanks.

Future topics

• Topic proposal by Owen Stephens for October:
  • Use of shortcut keys and macros for more effective cross-app working  - it also be good to have UX and Stripes/dev knowledge for this discussion I think. I know @Laura (she/they) uses macros so might have insights into the potential for cross-app working
  • Potential for external 'workflow' solutions for cross-app interactions
    • I think 'workflow' is a dangerous term here - in this context it's more about automation than user workflows, although I think there is overlap
    • I was particularly struck by the solution in production at TAMU (Jeremy Huff and Sebastian Hammer presented, the recording is at https://prod-zoom-recordings-openlibraryfoundation-org.s3.amazonaws.com/50dc6c87-3912-43fa-8287-56ec73b12bbb%2Fshared_screen_with_speaker_view%28CC%29.mp4 starting at 3 hrs, 14 min) - I think getting someone from TAMU to talk about how this is used would be v interesting
    • There was also a presentation on the use of a tool called Airflow at Stanford for "bibliographic workflow" but I've not watched that yet so not 100% sure if it is completely applicable - I think the core use case there was systems migration but it may go beyond that
    • Or Jenn Colt on using Prefect
    • does not need to be workflow across apps
• UX/UI and implementers topics
  • should be Wednesdays
• comprehensive look at where data is copied and stored as opposed to live data | how it is represented

...

Action items