2024-09-11 Meeting notes

Ingolf Kuss is next, followed by ????

Reminder:  Please copy/paste the Zoom chat into the notes.  If you miss it, this is saved along with the meeting recording, but having it here has benefits.

Maccabee Levine

Tod Olson

Jakub Skoczen

Craig McNally

Jenn Colt 

• CC: Maccabee Levine
  • There was a presentation and discussion about AWS costs, which are significantly over budget.  CC decided on an amount to limit the monthly spend, that ACRG or others would figure out how to achieve, and they are writing something up for clarity. 
• PC: Tod Olson
  • Presentations on mod-marc-migrations and mod-record-specifications
  • Voting ongoing, so far seems positive
• RMS Group:
  • No meeting
• Security Team: 
  • Nothing special to report.  Business as usual
• Tri-council Application Formalization:  
  • No meeting last week. Discussions about Eureka impacts as they surface.

• 11 Sep 2024 - Regular TC Meeting
• 16 Sep 2024 - Regular TC Meeting
• 18 Sep 2024 - Dedicated discussion: Continuation of architectural decision-making discussion
• 23 Sep 2024 - Cancelled: WOLFcon
• 25 Sep 2024 - Cancelled: WOLFcon
• 27 Sep 2024 - TC & WOLFcon

All

All

Need to log decisions for the following:  (see above)

Check Recurring Calendar...

• Spring Boot 3.4 (and Spring Framework 6.2)
  • Today RMS group has made the decision, see Liaison Updates section above.
• Sunflower
  
  • The Spring Boot support period of 12 months for a single minor release has the same length as FOLIO's support period of ~ 12 months, however, these periods usually don't align.
  • Regarding Backend "First Party Libraries / Frameworks": A library/framework needs to support only one of the versions allowed in the "Third Party Libraries / Frameworks" list. This should be clarified in the description.
  • Adding folio-s3-client to first party libraries and the AWS and MinIO clients to third party libraries. folio-s3-client is an abstraction for the AWS and MinIO client.
  • Java 21
    • No objections from developers, the migration from 17 to 21 will be easy, simply bump the folio-java-docker image in the Dockerfile and the jenkins-slave-docker image in the Jenkinsfile.
    • Need to contact DevOps whether they can provide a Java 21 version of folio-java-docker and jenkins-slave-docker before the Sunflower development starts; recent commits (folio-java-docker history, jenkins-slave-docker history) have been made by David Crossley, John Malconian, and Julian Ladisch.
      • Craig McNally is reaching out to Mike Gorrell to see if there is capacity in time for Sunflower.
      • If yes, next step will be to create a ticket for DevOps
  • Vertx 5
    • Major release, some changes to how callback, futures, etc.; may affect how we chain things.
    • Julian has tried and found little difficulty with RMB
    • Arguments for holding off until Trillium, not want to upgrade both Vertx and Java, but signal this is coming
    • Note: Trillium expected in Fall '25, assuming no delays; Sunflower needs support for two releases, gets very close to end of Vertx 4 support if there are delays.
    • Current inclination is towards Sunflower, but not solid decision
  • For Java 21 & Vertx 5: will wait for Java 21 capacity conversation, make decision next week.
  • S3/MinIO - S3 API version: still need version, see Action Item below
    

Last week:

• Java 21
  • Recap:
    • No objections from developers, the migration from 17 to 21 will be easy. (See above.)
    • Need to contact DevOps whether they can provide Java 21 environment as above.
  • Actions
    • Craig McNally is reaching out to Mike Gorrell to see if there is capacity in time for Sunflower.
    • If yes, next step will be to create a ticket for DevOps
    • Note: KeyCloak has already deprecated support for Java 17 and will remove in next version. Support KeyCloak through a Bouncy Castle library. Bouncy Castle support for Java 21 does not mesh well. KeyCloak is aware, could possibly adjust.
• Vertx 5
  • Major release, some changes to how callback, futures, etc.; may affect how we chain things.
  • Julian has tried and found little difficulty with RMB
  • Arguments for holding off until Trillium, not want to upgrade both Vertx and Java, but signal this is coming
  • Note: Trillium expected in Fall '25, assuming no delays; Sunflower needs support for two releases, gets very close to end of Vertx 4 support if there are delays.
  • Current inclination is towards Sunflower, but not solid decision
• For Java 21 & Vertx 5: will wait for Java 21 capacity conversation, make decision next week.
• S3/MinIO - S3 API version: still need version, see Action Item below
• OpenSearch 2 & Elasticsearch 8:
  • Some differences have crept in.
  • FOLIO currently uses only the basic features thought the OpenSearch client that are available in both.
  • Marc Johnson has run into some more basic issues with Elasticsearch client in another project, more strict.

Review decisions that are in progress.  Can any of them be accepted?  rejected?

Currently there is a PoC, developed by Maccabee Levine, of a utility to catalog Github PRs that have been labeled with the "breaking change" label. We would like to get developer feedback on the feasibility of this label being used more often, and the usefulness of this utility. 

Previous Notes:

• A workflow for these pages. When do they transition from one state to another. Do we even need statuses at all ?

Stripes architecture group has some questions about the Poppy release.

Zak: A handshake between developers, dev ops and the TC. Who makes that decision and how do we pass along that knowledge ? E.g. changes in Nodes and in the UI boxes. How to communicate this ? We have a large number of teams, all have to be aware of it.  TC should be alerted that changes are happening. We have a couple of dedicated channels for that. Most dev ops have subscribed to these channels. How can dev ops folk raise issues to the next level of community awareness ? There hasn't been a specific piece of TC to move that along.

Craig: There is a fourth group, "Capacity Planning" or "Release Planning". Slack is the de facto communication channel.  There are no objections to using Slack. An example is the Java 17 RFC. 

Craig: The TC gets it on the agenda and we will discuss it. The TC gets the final say.

Marc Johnson: We shouldn’t use the DevOps Channel. The dev ops folks have made it clear that it should only be used for support requests made to them.

Jakub: Our responsibility is to avoid piling up technical debt.

Marc: Some set of people have to actually make the call. Who lowers the chequered flag ?

Craig: It needs to ultimately come to the TC at least for awareness. There is a missing piece. Capacity Planning needs to provide input here. 

Marc: Stakeholders / Capacity Planning could make that decision. Who makes the decision ? Is it the government or is it some parts of the body ?

Marc: the developers community, the dev ops community and sys ops are involved. For example the Spring Framework discussion or the Java 17 discussion. But it was completely separate to the TC decision. It is a coordination and communication effort.

Marc: Maybe the TC needs to let go that they are the decision makers so that they be a moderating group.

Jakub: I agree with Marc. But we are not a system operating group. Dependency management should be in the responsibility of Release management. There are structures in the project for that.

Jason Root: I agree with Jakub and with Marc also. Policies should drive operational/release/support aspects of Folio.

Jason Root: If the idea of “support” is that frameworks are supported, then of course the project should meet that.

Marc Johnson
Some group needs to inform OleksAii when a relevant policy event occurs.
These documents effectively ARE the manifestation of the policy.

Craig: This is a topic for the next Monday session.

Craig to see if Oleksii Petrenko could join us to discuss the process for updating the officially supported technologies lists.

Possible topic/activity for a Wednesday session:

Discuss/brainstorm:

• Ideas for the type of developer-facing documentation we think would be most helpful for new developers
• How we might bring existing documentation up to date and ensure it's consistent 
• etc.