Date
Attendees
Aaron Trehub, Alexis Manheim, Anya, Brooks Travis, Carol Sterenberg, Charlotte Whitt, Gang Zhou, Ian Walls, Ingolf Kuss, Jana Freytag, Jesse Koennecke, julie.bickle, Karen Newbery, Kristin Martin, Marc Johnson, Martina Schildt, Martina Tumulla, Maura Byrne, Owen Stephens, Paul Kloppenborg, Peter Murray, Sharon Wiles-Young, twliu, Tod Olson
Recording
https://recordings.openlibraryfoundation.org/folio/product-council/2023-05-04T09:30/
Discussion items
| Time | Item | Who | Notes |
|---|---|---|---|
| 5 min | Announcements TC is looking for a rep from PC to attend regular TC meetings Browser support and bug fixes: TC has taken up this issue and is working on a statement | All | Challenging to get someone in this role because of the ongoing elections. Going to add this to the list of responsibilities. Julian Ladisch had created a draft statement on browser support that could be incorporated into this document. Add comments or participate on the TC Slack channel. |
| 10 min | Changes to release cycle Outcomes: Information sharing, opportunity to bring any concerns to Oleksii | From Oleksii in Slack: I want to inform you, that started from Orchid release (R1 2023) we are replacing Hot Fix process with Critical Service Patch (CSP) process.
If you are running FOLIO, check in with your technical staff and/or hosting provider to see how this will affect your service. The Product Owners discussed this at length over 3 meetings. We're unsure what the impact of not having the minor changes would be. The effect is that once a release is made, it is effectively frozen in time; it rules out trivial things, including updates to translations. The early expectations for FOLIO were that there would be more incremental releases to apps, not large ones. We are in a different place now. | |
| 50 min | "expectations vs. reality" discussion: continuing from last week see the minutes Related: identify ways in which the community might spend up to $100k-150k - could we think of ways to support the charter of the PC? Outcomes:
| All | Some of this money could go towards buying out time from people. Can one be a product owner without having a team? Experience shows that product owners need to be part of a development team to be effective. POs have to scrounge time from other teams. This is true of mostly fully baked apps (the Users app, for example). The PO role is one that comes from the agile methodology, which involves writing stories for developers and evaluating issues in bugfest. In one case, the task of writing up new features is lowest priority related to answering questions and verifying bugs. Some teams seem to be working independently on related areas...in this case around notices of various types to patrons. Whlle teams that are commissioned to work on certain areas, can they examine the backlog and pick up as much as they can for the scope of their work? Can a "lead PO" coordinate this effort? Having the POs define and review the functionality of a development team can be supported by SIG members. User Acceptance Testing at the SIG level can help reduce the largeness of the bugfest effort. SIG Conveners and POs can come together (like the tri-council meeting does) to work on cross-project communication. Can there be a consolidation of what development teams are planning and display that in relation to the roadmap? Distinguishing between what is being planned and what is in active development. Could this be a role for a PO-coordinator? If teams are working on things that aren't on the roadmap, how do we get those known about and reflected on the roadmap? This also fits into the charter of the PC. Rather than one large thing, how could the project use this money to tie up many loose ends in the project? |
| 5 min | Upcoming topics | All |
Action items
| Next week is normally the SIG update week, but we got off schedule because of last month's tri-council meeting. We recently had a SIG update; is there a need to have one next week? |
Chat log
00:02:20 Tod Olson: I will also be leaving by the top of the hour.
00:04:46 Owen Stephens: I do attend TC regularly, but it also clashes with the PO meeting which makes it difficult to be there every week
00:05:54 Kristin Martin: https://wiki.folio.org/display/TC/Browser+support
00:07:45 Tod Olson: Similarly, I always use FOLIO with Safari and have not encountered any specific problems.
00:08:35 Jana Freytag: We have feedback from a library using Edge having no reported trouble.
00:08:55 Jana Freytag: But some on Firefox
00:12:41 Ingolf Kuss: sorry, I have to leave now (train accident and tram strike)(need to pick up my daughter)
00:13:05 Brooks Travis: Edge and Chrome should have reasonable parity.
00:13:23 Maura Byrne: Reacted to "sorry, I have to lea..." with ðŸ‘
00:18:17 Kristin Martin: https://wiki.folio.org/display/PO/Directory+of+Product+Owners+by+Area+of+Focus
00:18:26 Jana Freytag: Reacted to "Edge and Chrome shou..." with 💯
00:21:15 Brooks Travis: I guess, to me, it depends on what you mean by effective.
00:25:27 Maura Byrne: 💯 Julie
00:25:56 Aaron Trehub (Auburn): Rotating off to another meeting...
00:28:17 Tod Olson: I need to run to another meeting, thank you all.
00:28:35 Brooks Travis: Community QA folks is probably an area where we could also engage people. To take up some of that burden from the POs
00:32:35 Charlotte Whitt: From Hebis we are the Odin team working on German Reminder Fees
00:33:11 Brooks Travis: For those who have access to LinkedIn Learning, they have some really good “how to be a PO†courses.
00:36:00 Gang Zhou | SHL: Reacted to "💯 Julie" with ðŸ‘
00:40:21 Ian Walls: bottom-up v. top-down
00:41:00 Julie Bickle (LMU): You may still have dev Teams who want to avoid the extra work and coordination effort
00:41:48 Ian Walls: perhaps using SIGs as a layer between POs and ultimate coordination
00:47:55 Charlotte Whitt: The Idea doing something similar as the tri-council meetings sounds like a good approach
00:48:32 Owen Stephens: I think it’s a fine balance but I do think it would be worth trying having the SIGs more directly saying what they are doing to work towards the PC priorities for Folio. I think this was an idea we discussed briefly at WolfCon in Hamburg
00:48:46 Julie Bickle (LMU): +1 Owen
00:50:14 Julie Bickle (LMU): +1 Charlotte
00:53:39 Marc Johnson: How might this process work for work that the teams do that the PC / SIGs aren’t involved in?
00:55:36 Brooks Travis: It’s both
00:56:13 Brooks Travis: Which is one of the reasons we tried to tie it into Jira
01:07:50 Owen Stephens: I do like the idea of being able to leverage the small amounts of development resource that could be contributed by institutions
01:08:26 Marc Johnson: Replying to "I do like the idea o…"
It’s really challenging to coordinate the work and manage expectations in that situation
01:09:20 Ian Walls: contract with a company/vendor, and let them worry about how they're going to get the work done (hiring, shifting staff resources, outsourcing, etc)
01:12:28 Brooks Travis: Replying to "I do like the idea o..."
I think if people just do the work we’ll find a way to coordinate it into the project.
01:13:21 Marc Johnson: Replying to "I do like the idea o…"
What work would they do?
01:15:38 Anya N. Arnold: What we have done in the last 6/7 years at one point was viewed as very hard
01:17:42 Owen Stephens: Replying to "What we have done in..."
It was and is very hard 🙂 The fact we’ve achieve what we have is testament to those who have worked on the project in all capacities. But 100% agree that something being hard doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be attempted or can’t be done
01:18:03 Anya N. Arnold: Reacted to "It was and is very h..." with â¤ï¸
01:18:11 Gang Zhou | SHL: Reacted to "It was and is very h..." with â¤ï¸
01:18:42 Sharon Wiles-Young: Reacted to "It was and is very h..." with â¤ï¸
01:19:35 Maura Byrne: Reacted to "It was and is very h..." with â¤ï¸
01:20:54 Maura Byrne: +1 Martina
01:21:38 Carol Sterenberg: Thank you!
01:21:40 Karen Newbery: Thank you!