2022-1-25 Bulk Edit Working Group Meeting Notes

• Magda: The progress on bulk edit development has stopped because the same team is working on the call number and subject browse functionality, and those need to be completed by this Friday because they are part of core modules, inventory. Once this is done they will return to bulk edit. There are two or three stories that when completed will open all functionality. This is the scrum board if you would like to see where we are. These three front-end stories are preventing us from seeing everything.

• Erin: Magda, you may not know the answer to this, but do you expect that bulk edit will eventually become a core app or a core module?
• Magda: I think it's too early to tell. Definitely not in the Lotis release. I am not sure who decides what is core or not.  From my point of view, the difference between core and platform complete is the deadline where we have to finish development. I'm sorry I don't have good news, but it's not really bad news. We were kind of expecting that we will use the call development time, the development deadline is February 1st. By our next meeting, which is February 8th, I would expect we will have something to demo.

• Magda: Regarding the acceptance criteria, all login issues should have been resolved by now, if they are not, I'm not aware of them so please let me know.

• Magda: I granted bulk edit permissions to everyone who reached out to me. So if you log in and you don't see bulk edit permission it's because you don't have the required permissions. This is by design. We don't want everyone to have access to bulk edit right away due to the powerful functionality that is being handled with this.
• Magda: On the scenarios for UIT, I sent the survey last week. I got only one response which I believe was probably due to confusion. I will rephrase it and resend it for the group.
• Magda: On the morning we grow glory release priorities we got 18 responses and it is pretty obvious which is the most sought-after functionality. I did a simple calculation and assigned a weighted point value, P1 five points, P5 one point and the rankings are as follows: Item location is on top with 35 points. Next is item status, then delete users and user permissions. So I think this is the order we will be addressing the issues. I'm not sure all of them will make it into the Morning Glory release.

• Magda: I have a couple of questions regarding the other areas that were mentioned. Loan policy, we touched on that and I would like to exclude loan policies for now, unless you tell me that my doing item location without it does not make sense.
• Erin: So loan policy would be editing alone, which is not any of the data types that we have talked about so far.
• ???: So can I just ask the question though? It's only editing alone if the thing is checked out. For the reserves use case, we need to take off the loan type and the location. We can't just take off one or the other. Does that make sense?
• Magda: Yes, but it complicates things for me. But we will get to this may be a little bit further down the road. I would like to understand the correlation and I would like to make sure if we do these without including loan types if this makes any sense or not
• Magda: The next one was item status. Hopefully, we will get to this today.
• Magda: Delete users, this will be the in-app approach. This was something that I originally thought we will do in the scope of a pilot release. I was really surprised that user permissions are on the bottom.
• Magda: Question about holdings. The holdings were mentioned, and they were mentioned twice in other areas. Thus item location without holding location makes sense, or do they need to be combined as well?
• Erin: If you have an item record and there's no permanent or temporary location on the item record, it inherits the effective location from the holdings records. I think what we may need to think about for the item location use case is we may need to be able to query for item records based on the holding permanent location and then edit the item. Let's say that I want to be able to see a holding location because I'm going to move a bunch of things or I'm going to temporarily put those items somewhere else. I need to be able to identify them based on the holdings in order to then edit the item record.
• Magda: I think I have this in my slides that I'm going to share shortly. So I think we will get to this. The holdings location will be a separate record that we will be modifying later, but not in the scope of the item location.
• Erin: I think they need to be in scope for the query.
• Magda: They will, but this is separate, it's also on the slides.
• Christine: I wanted to go back just a moment when you were going through the rankings. I think I need clarification. The delete users. I thought that was out of scope for this project, but are you saying that people rallied for it to be part of this?
• Magda: Yes, according to the feedback I got. Delete users were not in the scope of the pilot project that we are just finishing. The bulk adding of records is definitely not in scope because this would be a load. But the deletion is actually in scope. So you will need to have an option to delete a group of users.
• Christine: Thank you for clarifying that for me. You mentioned that you were surprised that user permissions were at the bottom of the rankings? I feel the same. I think that user permissions are super important for bulk editing from a user management perspective. And I know there have been conversations about a possible permissions app, um, in the future. So. Kind of wondering why people ranked user permissions the lowest.
• Magda: Maybe we can come back to this at the end of the meeting, if we still have time, and let's also discuss this on the Slack channel. I do believe user permissions were treated as less important in terms of those four options. I'm not saying we are not going to ever do this. I'm saying this is just further down on the list.
• ???: I think they were also among the most complicated.
• Magda: My most recent experience with user permissions is that it is kind of a baggy area. There are problems with this. So, I really appreciate Erin's feedback about user permissions making her nervous. They are making me nervous as well. But I see this as important functionality.
• Magda: Update expiration date and add patron group. Someone mentioned this. This is already supported in the scope of the pilot project that we are completing. And I'm not sure if the person who asked the question meant this is an in-app approach instead of the CVS files approach. I don't remember who asked this question. If the person is present, please speak up. And if not, I can reach out in slack directly to the person.
• Magda: The next question, "User search interface/tools that would generate the list of records to be worked on." I did not understand what was meant by that. If the person who asks the question is on the call can clarify what was meant by that?

• Magda: I think the current implementation is that for every session you need to reset this is a common component that’s being used in different areas as well if it is implemented it will preserve the selection for the user then it would work here as well but I don’t think this functionality is implemented yet. Any other comments?
• Sarah: I do have a comment. I was just trying it out. And the effective location is the same as what is in the holdings record. It seems then that the temporary and permanent location in the item is blank if you’re accepting the holdings location. It’s on the effective location basically tells you what that location is.
• Magda: the item location overrides the holdings location.
• Erin: It becomes the item effective location it does not change anything on the holdings record.
• Sarah: I know that. Override is the wrong word. But wouldn’t we still want to see then the effective location if I change the item location because otherwise I don’t know what the holdings location is for that item to which it is attached.
• Leeda: We would want to know the that they are different. And in Aleph it is a column temporary location on yes or no. Especially if we have a situation where we can change item locations but not holdings. We need to keep up which are different.
• Magda: Sarah it means that you are saying we need to have permanent location, temporary location, and effective location all of them right here?
• Sarah: I would say yes. Otherwise you will not be aware when they are different.
• Erin: So is there an option to preview some columns and to download all columns? That might be a middle ground in the UI. So if you needed to verify more fields than listed you could prior to doing your change?
• Magda: So let's say we have 100 records and we see five or ten on top. You want to see all of them before you commit?
• Erin: I want to see a preview because you're giving me a preview in the UI.
• Magda: So in the preview you would need to select them. Let's see how much space we have and what we can fit. I may follow up with you with the prioritization of the columns. But I am hearing that you definitely would like to see three of them: item permanent location, item, temporary location, and item affected location. And this may be a combo. So once you select one of them, considering that you will be changing the location, I would say this is rather important to see.
• Sarah: I have my FOLIO item displayed and my problem is it is not the item permanent location which is still showing blank for me. Under location in the item there is holdings location and the permanent location is that of the holdings record. Then as soon as I change the item temporary location, the effective location for the item changes to that temporary location. So what I need to know is the holdings permanent location in relation to the item temporary location which would be the effective location if I am understanding correctly. So maybe it’s the holdings permanent location and effective location for the item that we need to know so we can see that they are different.
• Cammie: Why wouldn't we do the holdings permanent location, the item permanent location and then the temporary location, because the effective location changes whenever you change any of those three.
• Erin: Would it be possible, Magda, to do a couple of different screenshots that could just help help us see what might be possible? Because I think everyone is bring up good points. It may be a thing where getting the visual will help us kind of understand what the trade-offs are for different combinations.
• Amanda: I don't want to put more work on Magda, but I definitely agree with what Erin is saying about having some visual mock-ups.
•  Magda: This sounds good and this would be an done with Kimi’s help. I'm not sure if we have Kimi on the call, but if not I will relay that to her. It also makes sense and is easier for me to visualize. So we will come back to this. But what was important about what was just said is you want to see item permanent location, item temporary location, and item effective location but also you want to see the holdings permanent location, holdings temporary location, and holdings effective location. Is that correct?

because we were talking on the, about the holding, uh, karma at his, I was.

Holding firm on his location. Sorry, item, permanent location. I can temporary location and item effective location. But what was just mentioned, you want to see also holdings, permanent location, right? Holdings, temporary location and holdings, effective location. Is this correct? This is what was. I don't think holding peasant temporary location, does it?

Oh, it does. It also has an affected location. So it's just a bunch of different fields that we're all talking about. Yeah. And I can see, I can see that being a constant batch project, cleaning that stuff up. So you've got to know. So I thought maybe this will be is simplified. Uh, right now, what you're talking about, you want to see everything because you don't see the option of selecting based on the holdings, permanent location, for example, which I believe should happen in this screen when, um, so this is, uh, the.

Form on the Bobcat is the identifier where first and now you want to query the query and you want the word by permanent location, temporary location, effective location, holding items. Those are the, uh, the suggestions that come up in there in slack channel. I think what you really want to query here is the holding permanent location, not the ID.

Yeah, sorry. Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah. We don't expect users to look at the ID just from the screenshot. Cause the screenshots was ID on it. That was all the reason I was matching up. Right. But that's the holding ID. So if you've got 200 items on one eight holding ID, you might want to change the 200 items on that holding ID that you're doing.

So, yeah, exactly. So this, uh, this was, I think the humbling ID was added by me because this in slack, there was a permanent location, but what you are clarifying right now, you want to have holdings, permanent location calling step, but our location holdings effected location, but I also think you would need to.

And item a permanent, temporary and effective location I've said base for quiero, but this is maybe a dumb question, but why can't we just say that I should be able to query by any field on the. And then maybe buy a set number of fields on holdings or they having done hard codes, the query values. No, I think this is the method of, uh, of supporting the quarter at the, at the backend, because like one thing use inquiry, one record, a whole thing, item record, and this is pretty straight forward.

It Alvin callings. It complicates a little bit because he needs to go to one, uh, the big library, so on people, uh, to get the holdings. So from what you're saying, Eric, you don't want to have, um, uh, limitation, but, um, I'm not sure we can, uh, support this out of the box. And I rather have qualitative works that have queer work.

So can we, can we take information from inventory about what is searchable and inventory, and then use that to okay. To in inventory, as you notice, you don't have the power for query search on holdings. I believe. Okay, then I misunderstood that of maybe I am incorrect. Okay. Yes. Uh, interface there.

Wednesday Corey face search  search. Cause that's not my oh, so that's item. So, uh, yeah. Uh, yeah. Yeah. So yeah, maybe this will be easier than I thought, because we will use whatever has been implemented for Elasticsearch. That's good. Uh, I was actually kind of wondering too, as a side note, I feel free for everyone else, especially people who are doing metadata management to totally shut up.

Um, but would it make more sense to, instead of having a separate query interface that we. Had an export from the inventory app. That could be that important into all that seems to me like you're duplicating the whole search process and export. So promote, you're saying like something similar, what we have, uh, in data export, uh, for the data export that you can save here.

Let's say it's like a language and then have. The option safety instances, UAP, or say instances the CQL quarter, right? The quiera, even just escort for Paul, edit something of that nature. And this is the injury here building even more of a dependency that between the apps. Um, and I don't know if there are use cases for editing inventory records where people would not.

Access to inventory that I would worry about that. That just seems a little bit too out of the approach to me. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I, I mean, I see what you mean, cause you do want to try to keep the app separate. I just, I just feel like it's a lot of duplication of work. Um, you already have an interface that I, at least from my standpoint, it seems to work.

So,

um,

Yeah, I think the, one of the requirements was that because of the, uh, damage that the, um, in properly done bug edit can do, we would like to separate this. And that's why we went with the approach, uh, that separates. And also we are building on the functionality that will be coming on, uh, across the different modules.

So, um, let me come back to the query part. We will, uh, we will come back into this. Um, this is the slide that I have, uh, to discuss and it relates to the functionality. Uh, it's mentioned here.

And I think of the book on this item, effective location, which I really like, uh, how, uh, is simply phrased how the affected location is being, uh, um, populated. So the question in my slide here is we have. This is coming only from, for the, we are modifying on the item record where we let's say, in our example, we have some value on the permanent location.

We have a temporary location is a new value that we will add in scope of the bulk edit and effective location will become any value. If we update permanent location. And the temporary location, the new effective location will become T uh, the new volume, temporary location if we had peer case, but we didn't have any, um, location specified and we added new value for the permanent location.

Um, this will become effective location. And the same here. If there was no value for permanent and Deborah, we devalue for temporary location, this will become effective location. Oops. And the last case use case is let's say we had some values, but we left them blank and the holding circle is not populated.

The location will be blank for this, um, uh, for this item

and the comments on that.

So it seems that this search will replace. Yeah, I'll just remind folks that the effective location has always calculated. You don't have to set it to anything. So that's why I made an upgrade to kind of, right. And in that last row, the, the effect of location is not empty. The effective location as the holdings, permanent location.

Right.

Yeah, you're right. About the item effective location on this screen. Yes, this is it. This is only about items. So, um, so I wasn't specific. Yes. I mean, item

will, um,

it's the value? Yeah, the whole thing. Permanent location.

Right because you've been holding system where our locations, it will be a innovation as well. Erin, this is correct. Uh, Yes, that is correct. So the next slide, uh, is,

can we just go back to the slide you just had from women? So I guess it's that bottom one where, uh, a minute ago is that empty, empty? I might not seen MTMP. Um, oops.

We need to promote me.

Sorry. It's just Google docs being a little weird. Cause the went off the screen

um, and then value of holding. And I guess that is my point about why we need, um, Yeah. Or if they have values in relation to the effect of location, but, uh, if we are removed, if we let's say there was some value here and we remove, uh, this will be automatically calculated. So if you select to see items effective location, it will already be populated for you based on.

Uh, based on the holdings allegation? No, I guess I was going back to the columns. Uh, if I don't know, how will I know that it is coming if all we're seeing is the effective location. Okay. With actually living that it's pulling it's calculating off of. Okay. Okay. I understand now. Okay.

So the, uh, the next slide is, uh, what we introduced in this release. You, you have this option start ball edit. We will add additional option, which will be started bulk edit in app to differentiate between those behaviors. The question I have, um, I suggest that the, the, the label to be CSV approach because we are using CSV files, but after awhile I felt maybe it would be easier to use the ETL export files form and lo what would make more sense for you?

Uh, CSV would make more sense to me, and I think that parallels with other apps are doing, but, um, Other people should have returned them. I would prefer here's me as well. I, I think it's just naming what is happening and straightforward. So, uh, so let's say user here clicks the sandbox editing app.

Obviously there will be two different. Uh, permission set. So one will be for in our approach. So there will be users who will only see enough, and there will be users that seatbelt of the approaches you to the fact that the CSV approach is definitely more powerful than in enough, because we control it more here.

Can you. I thought I knew it was happening and now I felt totally confused is, is in app, not the same as query. It is. It is. But, uh, uh, we, this is, this is new this in app. This is a new functional and we will be. So right now, what you do, you do the queer, or you do the identifiers to get the preview. You export the file to CSV.

If you're like a machine, you make the changes, you upload the file, and this is still what we are building here. We do the in-app, uh, application. That is, this is the screencast. Okay, sorry, this is the, uh, you, you got, you click the in app and then you see the timber item, location, permanent locations. Those are the options that you will see here.

Okay. So we look at the dropdown of the naming again, now that I understand.

So, I guess to me, what I would want as maybe for that naming to somehow indicate what was going to happen next, possibly. So it would be something like, um, uh, you know, create modifications or an app or something like that, so that you would understand. What was happening? I don't know. Maybe, maybe I just need to think about it more, but I, I'm not sure.

I think those things are also different that having the just CSV versus in app makes it confusing because an app is really just wildly different from everything else.

I'm not sure, but there may be, again, this as well. Um, once we have, uh, maybe, uh, um, mock ups, uh, then it will make more sense. Also. You can see what is happening. Uh, can I just say, I I've figured out what it is. It's the word start? Because when you hit start bulk edit there, it's not actually going to start editing.

Whereas the other ones, it is gonna start editing. I assume. That's the go button. So it's not new now when you click start. Oh yeah. Okay. Understand the confusion. Okay. Cause, cause it doesn't make it clear that there's another step before that in bulk at it actually stopped. So, so that's, so that's my differentiation between those types of.

So like continue in app or something like that. Yeah. Like, yes, something like that. That sounds more eloquent than anything I can think of. Yeah. So we will probably come back to, uh, to this, to the verbage of the, of this later. Uh, but basically this is the different. The difference in the approach services they're in now, here is the, uh, this is coming from the users, uh, in up approach.

But for the item, you would have this two options on that temporary item, location, and permanent location. And then you would see the replace all with.

With this, those two options, I think in a place with make more sense.

Um, uh,

so this will be the temporary location then will be replacement. And then you get this default select from a permanent location. So says select. Temporary location, um, a plan that is available in, in, in folio. And then you would select the location you are interested in

and it comments on this. I think it's clear from the feedback I'm getting, you would need to have. It clear, uh, mockups, not the Frankenstein, um, mock ups with, uh, come up with kind of copying and pasting to different elements. Uh, I don't want to confuse you, but I'm afraid I'm confusing here,

Mike, this is just maybe a tangential question for the in app bulk edits, um, is the idea to have only one. That we do only one edit at a time. So for example, if you wanted to change like the, you know, temporary location and maybe loan type in down the road. So are we thinking that we first have to change that location and then we go back and change it for a long time.

We can do multiple operations at one. So this is, this is the whole point. So in scope of the work, the temporary location, once we complete this, when you click, when you click here, when you click on the select option, you will see only two, but once you get, let's say we refinished item status as well. You will see the list will be temporary, location, item, location, item, status, et cetera.

When we add the loan types, you will see, you know, the list will be growing as the work progress. And maybe this is a question for down the road. It makes me think that for loan type and is that associated with locations in folio, and maybe I'm thinking about all of where, you know, our locations have they're called item statuses, so it gets even more confusing.

So I'm just wondering in the logic of how we do our operations. Will there be. Collisions in between like statuses learning types and locations. So as we mentioned this in the beginning, I don't know, uh, Jennifer, you heard this, we talk about this on the beginning of the meeting there in the scope of the next release, we would like only to talk about, uh, item, location, not, uh, Um, long pipes.

And I asked the question, if it would make sense to separate those, uh, two and from what you're saying, it does not. Okay. Uh, no, I think I'm just thinking of way down the road, maybe. Um, just if we're going to do multiple operations, then, you know, do we have to think. How those operations are related to each other and the business logic.

So maybe that's not a question for now, but maybe down the road, once we have like multiple things, we can look at it. So this is one of the reasons, uh, the, the bulk, the lung types are not in scope of the item location, because it would add complexity. Um, So I see someone occurred. Thank you. Uh, this, this is one of the areas that was mentioned here is the, um,

here's the feature for the, um, item location. And I stated here that loan types and holdings location are not instantly.

So this is something we will, uh, once we get to long pipes, uh, then we will need to take into account that changing location impacts the long, long pipes.

Did it answer your question and then just going back to what we were talking about, um, to the. I think, I agree with John, that is the language. Is it trips me up for some reason? Yeah. The start bumping it CSV and then start bucket, um, in app. And I don't know if there's more propriate language, it's just, and I'm not quite sure why it trips me up.

So, yeah. So I don't know if we need more. We need to, uh, it's obvious that this needs to be a visit that we will come back to either in green governor next meeting, or maybe I'll reach out to you in the, uh, in the slack. We have six minutes left. I would like us to take a quick look at the item status.

I can drink this or it's too small. You have a little salt. Yeah. I'm trying to resize, but it's well, okay. So when we talk about, no, it shouldn't be better, right? Not anymore.

Uh, that let's go to JIRA and I think this engineer. Okay.

And for the next six minutes, we will be waiting for the page to open,

um,

So, this is what Sarah broken up. Uh, last time when we talk about the locations and I know this is, uh, Opening a can of, uh, problems, possible problems down the road. And I would like to limit the number of the, uh, statuses that we would be able to, to, uh, modify. And this reflects the logic that is in currently in inventory.

What are the statuses that are supported in England? If we do those statuses, we basically stay in the area of inventory without affecting other areas. And my question to you is, is this useful or not really? So if we have the status, if we want to change the status of the item from available, if the items developed.

Those will be the statuses that are available to change. So from available, you can change to missing, withdraw in process normal requestable intellectual items, long missing, restricted, unavailable, and unknown. If the status of the item is missing, those are only that will be supported. And here is the list.

Can, uh, so a question about that. Can I, might've been, it's too small for me to see it, but that's my screen. Don't worry about it. Um, can we change things back to available, even though it does not if the inventory thing, so in, in  I have to go. Uh, check in and detect something in to make it available again, if you know, so will that be included?

How do you do this in inventory? If you have an item that was marked as missing, you can not make it available. I have to go to check-in and I have to check it in. Um, and then, and then it can be changed to available from there. So it works from all the others.

Uh, it's not something that we would do in batch that often, but we do have to, we do find books. Occasionally they'd have to make them available or on shelf again. But do you do this in batch? Do you find them in batches that, that, um, you know, Around what Sarah was saying. Think about their wisdom, that straightforward process.

But I agree. It's not something I would be okay with not being able to do it in batch, because I mean, you would have had your lifestyle, whole boxes and then suddenly found the box, still have a batch key, but I've made a whole bunch of things, um, unavailable because they're. And I just sent some out to get clean and I'm bringing them back then.

I would like to in batch again, make them all available. Yeah, that's a good point. Cause it's not, let me see under unavailable here currently, it doesn't have switched to available, right? Correct. Because to switch it, to make anything show as available. The only way I know how to do it currently is to use the check-in module.

Right. So that's why I was asking. So this is the document. You cannot forget it.

Um, it's linked to the story. This is,

yeah. If we decide to go with the available again, to be option, to make it available, we are impacting, uh, circulation, obviously. And the daytime part. And I would need to think about this a little bit more, um, because this adds a little bit of, uh, complexity. Uh we'll. We will need to come from. Uh, to that, I need to learn to another meeting and we are on top of the hour.

Thank you very much for your feedback. I am sorry. I did not look at the chat. I'm not sure what is in the chart. If you ask questions and that question and they didn't respond, please post them in, uh, in, uh,

And I think we will continue, um, uh, more on slack because I would like to start finishing the requirements for, um, items, uh, locations and item status.

Yeah. And if you could give the available so I can think of some other scenario of case. Um, where I've had to change in batch things back to available after making them unavailable or for whatever, um, off, off limits, uh, for a certain amount of time. So, uh, what is available the only case, or is this also something that each something, uh, so from strips that you would be able to go back to two other, uh, like.

It's only the

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I was thinking also, um, especially, you know, I had this problem in Alma and not necessarily all apps because Alma does a similar thing to fully aware. If, you know, it goes in transit until it goes to the next circ desk. So we had tons of things that weren't checked in appropriately. So they all went to the shelf with the in transit stuff.

So we would bulk remove, uh, the in transit status and make them available because we knew those were on the shelf. And I noticed that's not listed there because of the impact, um, and circulation. Yeah, I was going to just add that, um, this might be a better conversation to weight program yards back because she knows certain inside of now.

And I know from prior conversations, she said changing items, how this is like, this does have a big impact on the circulation module. There's business logic in place that we have wouldn't have to be considered. So, um, but that's just my 2 cents. Right? So I was thinking we can approach this, uh, item, location into, uh, Approaches first one, uh, to do the inventory statuses as Sarah suggested in the first approach.

And then in the next one, work on the statuses that would affect other areas and then start to be those that affect the circulation. And that would be also a good, uh, first step into bulk edit of circulation, the records, like a request, um, and others. Um, let's come back to this, uh, next time we meet and thank you for your feedback.

I need to run and probably I, I thank you. Bye.

Only one response - I will revisit it.