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Discussion:
| Topic | |||||||||||||
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| Housekeeping | Please Magda 02:31 I would ask everyone who is present today to add your name to the list of attendees Development updates | ||||||||||||
Development updates
| Expected behavior for:
| Existing behavior:
| Widget Connector | ||
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Main questions to be discussed:
- What is the best way to present call number in the preview and confirmation screens? Should each element be in a separate column or should they be combined in one? What are the pros and cons for each approach?
- What is the use case for displaying holdings statements in the preview and confirmation screens? How should multiple values be concatenated?
- What is the use case for displaying holdings notes in the preview and confirmation screens? How should multiple values be concatenated?
- What is the use case for displaying Electronic access the preview and confirmation screens? Should all the elements of electronic access to be displayed? How should multiple values be concatenated?
Further details of the survey results available here
Magda 02:31
I would ask everyone who is present today to add your name to the attendees' list. That helps later on when we discuss things we discussed in the past. A quick reminder that we have a Bulk Edit session in Hamburg on August 31, it's Wednesday at 4pm Central European Time, it's 10am. Eastern Time. The meeting will be Hybrid Hybrid meeting, which means it's for in person and zoom attendees. And the last housekeeping bullet is we are not going to have a meeting on September 6, I will be on vacation visiting my home country, so be available. If you have any comments, questions, suggestions regarding the welcome, please feel free to reach out to me anytime, unless you want to stick up now and say something for everyone.
Unknown Speaker 06:09
I'm refreshing the screen to see them. Attendees. And let's dive in into the Morning Glory back fest tickets. As you see the list is significant, significantly shorter than it was last time, it would have three reminding stories. Two of them are in code review. One is in progress, all of them are related to making more data export worker horizontally scaling. And the issue is not only for bug edit, but also for other modules that use use it for exporting the reports. It would be EDIFACT. Exports, it's for iOS, sorry, holdings, exports, circulation, log Bursar log, books, our information, all of them are using the module. So the work we put here, it will benefit others as well. The other good news is that we were able to resolve one of the issue that was planned to be a non issue that once the mark edit completes the confirmation banner needed to be manual refresh to provide updated lists. A number of records affected or updated. This is done. It's we are not able to recreate it anymore. So it's a good news. The link to the performance tests are here, they did not change since the last meeting, we will be doing definitely more tests once those three stories for horizontal scaling are to make sure how the system behaves when we have one more than one module available. And the questions.
Unknown Speaker 08:16
So the other two things that are listed as known issues looks like we're going to talk about one of them, the x is going to be worked in no Launa.
Unknown Speaker 08:25
So the first one will be worked on Mallanna to do two or three is right now and in progress, the developer is looking into it. If we find a solution for this and we can squeeze it in Morning Glory then we will include this in their morning glory occurs when you try to upload more than 3000 user records, which if this is the case, if we are not able to fix it for Morning Glory, I still feel it's okay if we move it to Atlanta and address it in Atlanta. I will know more about that. Probably for sure during our next meeting, which will be in month but maybe also during the welcome meeting and on the development status. If we look at the CRAM board development despite in addition to the box that we are addressing from the wheel, we are addressing from the backups. The team is also working on the backend functionality for an alumna so that UI work can start and in this sprint that started yesterday. So we will be addressing issues. We will be working on knowledge and the questions Okay is the link, the links are here. So if anyone is interested afterwards or during the meeting, feel free to, to take a look at those. And if you have questions, please let me know. So I would like to move to the expected behavior for the bulk edits. 122. And I have slides here, I can also demonstrate their behavior. If this is not clear, so here are the slides, let me put this into the presenter mode. I'm not working with the Okay. So what is happening right now, that if we upload the file with 25, holding records, IDs, in order to identify associated items, and out of those 25 Holdings, only 20 holdings are valid. And they are associated with 24 items,
Unknown Speaker 11:29
which is valid mean in this context.
Unknown Speaker 11:33
We'll show them next like that. Okay. So maybe I'll start with this like, so this is the this is the file that I'm uploading to trigger to trigger the bulk edit. As a result, I'm getting
Unknown Speaker 11:57
so 20 found a match
Unknown Speaker 11:59
20 found and match for holdings, the five, the remaining the remaining five did not was not the match was not found. But for those 20 Holdings IDs, we found 24 items ID and those 2124 items are listed here, like top of the top 10. But if you click safe matched records, you will get 24 items. So
Unknown Speaker 12:47
so it's like 24 valid item records matched. But then there were five errors on the holding IDs.
Unknown Speaker 12:53
Yes. So when you look at here, this error label does not make sense at all.
Unknown Speaker 13:03
So what can we control here? If that makes sense? Like can we can we control the wording? Can we control? You know, can we say that? Can we add like a blue eye and show information? Like like what what are we able to do to try and provide clarity?
Unknown Speaker 13:22
Just tell me what you think would make sense. And then I were cast this with developers? Sure. Turman what makes sense,
Unknown Speaker 13:33
right? So like Lita chimed in in the chat, and I definitely think more people should talk. But you know, it's, that's valid, right? You frequently would have you know, this is
Unknown Speaker 13:43
a case where you're used to seeing when you're working with holding IDs. And in this case, you want to edit all the items associated with those holding IDs, some of those holdings are going to have more than one item.
Unknown Speaker 14:02
Yes. And the same behavior. This is not only the behavior for editing item records with holdings, we will have the same behavior if we start, for example, editing codings by providing instance IDs, or there are many other use cases for this. So I just want us to come up with solution or approach that would make sense that it will not be confusing for the user shakey Bob has hand raised.
Unknown Speaker 14:34
Yeah, I just want to be sure I understand what the confusion is, is it because the user knows that they loaded 20 and they see the number 24?
Unknown Speaker 14:45
No, the user knows they loaded 2545 and
Unknown Speaker 14:53
2025 all the IDs
Unknown Speaker 14:59
were returned. Why four items?
Unknown Speaker 15:01
Yes. So 2025 Holdings IDs, your submitted 25 Holdings IDs?
Unknown Speaker 15:08
I thought we said 20.
Unknown Speaker 15:09
I thought you said 20. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 15:11
yes, it said 20. Because five of them five of those 25. Were invalid. So for those holdings IDs that you This is the list of 25 Holdings. I am I just added a few invalid IDs, to the to, to show you the behavior because it may happen, you may submit the value of the holdings ID that does not exist. So, you submitted the list of 25 Holdings IDs, then, so, we know that out of those 25, holdings IDs, five are invalid. So there is no record for those holdings IDs in the database. For those that were valid for those remaining 20, there were 24 item records associated with them. So I get it.
Unknown Speaker 16:27
So I have my first suggestion is rather than using the word records, can we use the name of the identifier? Or say the name, you know, holding 24? Or the name of the thing? We're actually talking about 24 item records 24. And then 24, item records matched five holdings UU IDs errored, or had errors or something like that. Yeah, but uh huh.
Unknown Speaker 17:01
I don't really have a problem with this top screen, because I can see here in the column that says barcode, if I have a barcode, I'm on an item. The I feel good about having the 24 when I would start to worry is if I have fewer numbers, which may have been I submitted,
Unknown Speaker 17:25
which may happen as well, because if out of those 20 Holdings, there were some holdings that did not have associated items may happen, then you will, you may end up sending 20 Holdings Record and getting on the item 18 items, for example.
Unknown Speaker 17:50
Wait, so I think adding the the name of the type of the record in front of record, and the type of the identifier in front of error would help.
Unknown Speaker 18:01
Okay, so the top level would be 24 items, item records much. Yep. And on the errors, we will have 29 entries and I need to investigate how did we get to the number 28 To be honest 29 Because the 29 is nowhere to be found here. But this is the bug on the technical side
Unknown Speaker 18:33
29 Is 24 item records plus five holding errors,
Unknown Speaker 18:38
which is not the case. Well it is does map here but this is not working in this case. So 24 and much item records and much 2024 item
Unknown Speaker 18:55
records matched. And then you can say five air five holdings you UID errors or? Or yeah, I don't know the best way to handle like plural versus singular there. I'm sure there's guidance somewhere about it. But
Unknown Speaker 19:15
can I would it be okay holdings identifiers errs?
Unknown Speaker 19:21
Well, I think it depends on on, I guess I would think it would be easy just to use the name of the identifier but I don't have a strong opinion about it. Anybody else does please speak up?
Unknown Speaker 19:34
On the left, you're using the term holdings UU IDs.
Unknown Speaker 19:38
So you would like to you would like to have the name Preserve? Correct. I
Unknown Speaker 19:44
just I just think it would make sense in context. It looks like Christie has her hand up Christy. Yes. Um,
Unknown Speaker 19:56
so I guess my question would be are the errors always going to be related to the holdings UU IDs, because I can imagine that there is a holdings with an item and there was an error with the item
Unknown Speaker 20:13
on this screen. This is the landing page. Once you have submitted here, you will see all the errors that occurred during the matching provided IDs.
Unknown Speaker 20:28
So it will only be the that will only be the holding Gu ID that is,
Unknown Speaker 20:35
in this case, the errors that are here will that sorry, the IDS you have provided don't match.
Unknown Speaker 20:44
So my might well my other question is, and I realized that I missed out on a big chunk of this working group while we went live. But so what happens if you have a, you know, a holdings ID, and it's got 10 items, but only nine items show up? Because one of them had an error? Would you even know about that?
Unknown Speaker 21:09
This is a very good question. And why do you think would not? Why do you think that one of those shouldn't, would not be would not show up?
Unknown Speaker 21:25
That's like, a good question.
Unknown Speaker 21:27
Because all that's happening here is you're giving, you're saying, here's the records, I want, by the holding of your ID, and fully OSHA just return all of the item records that are on these holding UU IDs.
Unknown Speaker 21:40
But this is a good question. So for example, if, let's say bark, one of the item records, has some invalid data that prevents rendering it in the UI. Christy, is this the scenario you have in mind?
Unknown Speaker 22:02
That I actually I, you know, I didn't really have a specific scenario in mind. I just, I was thinking about this from a quality control standpoint and a user and how do I know that? How am I going to confirm that, you know, I'm changing everything I expected to change. And, and in looking at the errors, you know, I would be really surprised if we'd never have that happen. And folio. And this scenario that you gave is actually a really good one, because we're finding, you know, from migrating from one, you know, version to another, that some of our data that we migrated with is just not standing the test of time. So I think it's perfectly reasonable that we have items out there with data that is going to go stale and no longer be valid in the system
Unknown Speaker 22:55
or current or for some more is corrupted
Unknown Speaker 22:58
for some reason. Exactly. And you know, what happens in that scenario? And I would expect it to show in errors that, you know, there was one record that we couldn't pull for whatever reason. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 23:16
So in this case, let's say we have one item, one item that did not show up. So we would let's say we add here, we would add here, a barcode and the comment, data corrupted. And then you will need to know which one is the value for holdings and which one is the value? Well, you
Unknown Speaker 23:44
wouldn't presume you could presume and Christi scenario, you might not even get a barcode back.
Unknown Speaker 23:49
So but you will have the let's say I can you ID
Unknown Speaker 23:56
My question is how is how does polkadot know? How many hold it how many items it expects to get?
Unknown Speaker 24:09
But it doesn't know about it? No, just gives you this is what I found for what they gave me. Like when we work with identifiers, we just assume this is it. We can track and we track the errors that occur in the process. It will be kind of difficult to recreate this issue with the data. But let's come back to this at some point. I see Bob has his hand.
Unknown Speaker 24:47
I just have a quick question. So what's happening down below under the errors is a simple match on the the UID in the spreadsheet to the UID is in the system. So? So no items are really being checked. It's just a simple comparison. So, so it doesn't come into play in terms of this error message down here, right?
Unknown Speaker 25:19
Yes, but
Unknown Speaker 25:22
it may come into play up above when we're trying to display the items. But it won't even do that, because it's it didn't, I'm sorry, yeah, so it makes the match. And there's five items attached to the holdings. And he tries to display it in the upper section here, you might get an error, right? If it's corrupted or whatever way at all.
Unknown Speaker 25:48
So there is an item display and airing because what is here, the records much aren't the items, those in the TreeView, those are the items, those are not the holdings. And, and please remember that for identifiers, we don't see all matches here, we see only top 10, top 10. But when the user save all matches locally, then the when then those if there is a problem with one of those records, that may cause a problem down the road, I would like to table this and come back to this conversation. Our let me think about this. For now, obviously, we are not going to handle this case, the record will be excluded. Unless the problem is such that will prevent users from saving the matching funds. The files of the matching records locally. Let me think about this. And we'll I will come back to this group. But this was a good good point. Christy.
Unknown Speaker 27:23
Can I just add one, one thing I thought of, in terms of the messages about the different record numbers that are coming back? just occurred to me it may be a single box with multiple lines describing the results in one place might might read better?
Unknown Speaker 27:46
Can you could you repeat? A so instead of the we are talking about errors part, right? So you're suggesting that instead of one line to make it multi line or
Unknown Speaker 28:00
rather than I'm not saying this is just an idea that occurred to me to have single box somewhere in this maybe on the left? That is reporting the results of every type of record that came back the errors, and you know, the different verbiage for each results category, all in one place. So you're not scanning in different places for to make sense of the numbers. Just one idea.
Unknown Speaker 28:36
Okay, we can talk about this too. My understanding is that if everything goes fine, if there are no errors, and you see this top 24 This is all you really need. And when there are errors, you have them in one place and then it's followed by what went wrong. But I put this also on the list of things to discuss how make there's a little bit more prominent or the reporting more prominent. Are we any comments in the in the chat that I need that we would like to talk before we move to the next part? When we download a CSV of the preview file, do we get CSV with only the columns chosen? We are all columns. We got the whole record so
Unknown Speaker 29:36
that I know that's a bit of a non sequitur but it leads into our agenda items further down.
Unknown Speaker 29:44
So we you got everything in CSV format, whatever is in the in the item record. Okay, I can show you some example. polls, I believe I'm clicking here. So let me open up some examples here. So those are the user records and human video item record that I'm doing in that quick way of opening it in Excel. This is not the most elegant way. But I just wanted to show you the data quickly. So you see you have IDs, you have H IDs, holdings, you have the title, that is part of the record. And all the things that are part of the of the item record. Great, thank you.
Let's dive into the Morning Glory bugfest tickets. As you see, the list is significantly shorter than last time; we have three remaining stories. Two of them are in code review. One is in progress. All of them are related to making MOD data export horizontal scaling. And the issue is not only for Bulk Edit but also for other modules that use it for exporting reports, e.g., EDIFACT exports, eHoldings exports, Circulation log, and Bursar information. All of them are using this module. So the work we put in here will benefit others as well. The other good news is that we were able to resolve the issue where once the Bulk Edit completes, the confirmation banner needed to be manually refreshed to provide the number of records affected or updated. This is done. We are not able to recreate it anymore. So it's good news. The links to the performance tests are here, they have not changed since the last meeting, and we will definitely be doing more tests once those three stories regarding horizontal scaling are addressed, and we are sure how the system behaves when we have more than one module available. And the questions?
Erin 08:16
So the other two things that are listed as known issues, it looks like we're going to talk about one of them, the other is going to be worked in no Nolana?
Magda 08:25
So the first, 122, will be worked on in Nolana.
- UIBULKED-122 - Implement logic for record counts when items bulk edit is triggered by holdings id
The second one, 203, is in progress now. The developer is looking into it. If ,we find a solution for this and we can squeeze it into Morning Glory then we will include it there. The issue occurs when you try to upload more than 3000 user records, which if this is the case and we we are not able to fix it in Morning Glory, I still feel it's okay if we move it to Nolana. I will know more about that at our next meeting.
- MODEXPW-203 - "Fail to upload file" error with large amount of Users barcodes
In terms of the development status, if we look at the SCRAM board, in addition to the bugs that we are addressing from bugfest, the team is also working on the backend functionality for Nolana so that UI work can start in the sprint that started yesterday. So we will be addressing issues in Nolana. The links are here if anyone wants to review them. if you have questions please let me know.
Expected behavior for:
- UIBULKED-122 - Implement logic for record counts when items bulk edit is triggered by holdings id
Existing behavior:
Widget Connector url https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1TyqdtGv7PZpnu0Y8R4K_K_IQ98tg6IgLmzfS1tv7TCM/edit?usp=sharing
Magda 10:30
So I would like to move to the expected behavior for the bulk edits-122. I have slides here and I can also demonstrate the behavior if this is not clear. So what is happening right now, is that if we upload a file with 25 holding records, and out of those 25 Holdings, only 20 holdings find a match, there are 5 errors with no matches. So does this result screen make sense?
Erin 13:03
So what can we control here? Can we add a blue eye and show information? What are we able to do to try and provide clarity?
Magda 13:22
Just tell me what you think would make sense. And then, I can discuss this with the developers.
Erin 13:33
Lita chimed in the chat, and I definitely think more people should talk. But you know, that's valid, right? Y
Lita 13:43
This is a case we are used to seeing when you're working with holding IDs. And in this case, you want to edit all the items associated with those holding IDs. Some of those holdings are going to have more than one item.
Magda 14:02
Yes. And we will have the same behavior if we start, for example, editing holdings by providing instance IDs. There are many other use cases for this. So I just want us to devise a solution or approach that would make sense so that it will not confuse the user. Bob has his hand raised.
Bob 14:34
Yeah, I just want to be sure I understand the confusion. Is it because the user knows they loaded 20 and see the number 24?
Magda 14:45 - Magda clarified the issue with the displayed results again.
Erin 16:27
So, my first suggestion is, rather than using the word records, can we use the name of the identifier? Or say the name of the thing we're talking about, e.g., 24 item records, 24 of 24 item records matched, and five holdings UU IDs have errors.
Lita 17:01
I don't really have a problem with this top screen because I can see here in the column that says barcode if I have a barcode, I'm on an item. I would start to worry if I had fewer numbers than I submitted.
Magda 17:25
This may also happen because if out of those 20 holdings, there were some holdings that did not have associated items, then you may end up with 18 items, for example.
Erin 17:50
So I think adding the name of the record type in front of "record," and the type of the identifier in front of "error" would help.
Magda 18:01
Okay, so the top level would be 24 items records match. And on the errors, we will have 29 entries, and I need to investigate how we got to the number 29, to be honest, because 29 is nowhere to be found here. But this is the bug on the technical side.
Erin 18:55
24 item records matched. And then you can say five UID errors. Or, yeah, I don't know the best way to handle plural versus singular there. I'm sure there's guidance somewhere about it.
Magda 19:15
Would it be okay as holdings identifiers errors?
Erin 19:21
I thought it would be easy just to use the name of the identifier, but I don't have a strong opinion about it. If anybody else does, please speak up.
Bob 19:34
On the left, you're using the term holdings UU IDs.
Magda 19:38
So would you like to preserve this naming? Correct?
Erin 19:44
I just think it would make sense in context. It looks like Christie has her hand up.
Christie 19:56
My question would be, are the errors always going to be related to the holdings UU IDs because I can imagine that there is a holding with an item, and there was an error with the item?
Magda 20:13
You will see all the errors that occurred while matching the provided IDs.
Christie 20:28
So it will only be the holding UUIDs there?
Magda 20:35
In this case, the errors that are here will be IDS you have provided that don't match.
Chrisie 20:44
So my other question is, what happens if you have a holdings ID and it's got 10 items, but only nine items show up because one of them had an error? Would you even know about that?
Magda 21:09
This is a very good question. And why do you think would not? Why do you think that one of those would not show up?
Christie 21:25
That's a good question.
Erin 21:27
All that's happening here is you're giving a set of holdings record IDs, and then it should just return all of the item records that are on these holding UUIDs.
Magda 21:40
But this is a good question. So, for example, if, let's say, one of the item records has some invalid data that prevents rendering it in the UI. Christy, is this the scenario you have in mind?
Christie 22:02
I didn't really have a specific scenario in mind. I was thinking about this from a quality control standpoint. How will I confirm that I'm changing everything I expected to change? And, looking at the errors, I would be really surprised if we'd never have that happen. And this scenario you gave is actually a really good one because we're finding that some of the data we migrated with is just not standing the test of time as we migrate from one version to another. So I think it's perfectly reasonable that we have items out there with data that will go stale and no longer be valid in the system or is corrupted for some reason. And you know, what happens in that scenario? And I would expect it to show in errors that, you know, there was one record that we couldn't pull for whatever reason.
Magda 23:16
So, in this case, let's say we have one item that did not show up. So we would add here a barcode and the comment, data corrupted. And then, you will need to know which is the value for holdings and which is the value.
Erin 23:44
In Christie's scenario, you might not even get a barcode back.
Magda 23:49
But you will have the UUID.
Erin 23:56
My question is, how does Bulk Edit know how many items it expects to get?
Magda 24:09
It doesn't know. It just gives you this is what it found for what it was given. We can track the errors that occur in the process. It will be kind of difficult to recreate this issue with the data. But let's come back to this at some point.
Bob 24:47
I just have a quick question. So what's happening down below under the errors is a simple match on the UID in the spreadsheet to the UUIDs in the system. So no items are really being checked. It's just a simple comparison. So, it doesn't come into play regarding this error message down here, right?
Christie 25:22
It may come into play above when we're trying to display the items if there are five items attached to the holdings and you might get an error because one record is corrupted or whatever.
Magda 25:48
When the user saves all matches locally, if there is a problem with one of those records, that may cause a problem down the road. I would like to table this and come back to this conversation. Let me think about this. For now, obviously, we will not handle this case; the record will be excluded unless the problem is such that will prevent users from saving the matches found. I will come back to this. But this was a good point, Christie.
Bob 27:23
Can I just add one thing I thought of in terms of the messages about the record numbers in the result? It just occurred to me that a single box with multiple lines describing the results in one place might read better. Reporting the results of every type of record that returned and the errors, all in one place, so you're not scanning in different places to make sense of the numbers. Just one idea.
Magda 28:36
Okay, we can talk about this too. My understanding is that if everything goes fine, if there are no errors, and you see this top 24, this is all you really need. And when there are errors, you have them in one place, followed by what went wrong. But I also put this on the list of things to discuss how to make it a little bit more prominent or the reporting more prominent. Are we any comments in the chat that I need to discuss before we move to the next part?
Lita in Chat: When we download a CSV of the preview file, do we only get the chosen columns or all the columns?
Magda 29:36
We get everything in CSV format, whatever is in the item record.
Main questions to be discussed:
- What is the best way to present call number in the preview and confirmation screens? Should each element be in a separate column or should they be combined in one? What are the pros and cons for each approach?
- What is the use case for displaying holdings statements in the preview and confirmation screens? How should multiple values be concatenated?
- What is the use case for displaying holdings notes in the preview and confirmation screens? How should multiple values be concatenated?
- What is the use case for displaying Electronic access the preview and confirmation screens? Should all the elements of electronic access to be displayed? How should multiple values be concatenated?
Magda
I would like to start with a few questions that were reoccurring. Several responses to the question about call number display in the preview and confirmation screen indicated a preference to see each call number prefixes and suffixes elements in separate columns. And I would like to understand what the use cases are. Why do you think it should be separate? I just want to make sure I understand.
Jackie
Well, one thing is that that's how you can see if, for example, somebody put the prefix in the call number field instead of a prefix field. And if you have them all together, you can't actually see
Magda
Yeah, it makes sense.
Erin
That's an excellent example.
Magda
This is a good point. If you combine everything, you will never know what is the part of the call number and what is the part of the prefix.
Sara
I think the examples are exactly right. If I need to do a cleanup job, then the call number prefix, etc., need to be separated.
Bob
So are we talking about just this preview screen of 10 records? Or are we talking about the download file?
Magda
The download file will have everything and will be structured like the record. So you will have everything separately. The prefix call number and suffix will be done separately. But we are talking about preview, we are talking about the are you sure form, and we are talking about their confirmation and all those places when those records are being displayed.
Magda
The other question about the preview, are you sure form and the configuration screen is someone mentioned (it was Duke) the need to see the holding statements and holdings notes.
Leeda
So I checked in with my leader, who helped me fill out this survey. And she said both types of data would be useful for analyzing the scope, ensuring accuracy, and troubleshooting when needed. But again, since we're just talking about a 10 to 20-item preview screen. We're fine if we can get to it in the CSV file.
Magda
My concern is that if we add holding statements and notes, I don't know how lengthy those notes can be.
Leeda
It was alright for concatenating the summary statement, and then for the holding notes, I think just the presence or absence of a note would be fine. Again, it's just a case of when we get ready to run a bulk edit, inevitably, there can be records in there that we didn't really mean to hit.
Magda
Leeda, do you want those to be columns in the preview?
Leeda
The feedback I got was yes, but I'm not sure certain that the that they understand that you can capture that in the CSV. I will get back to you on that one. If I had to make an executive decision, I would say it's not absolutely necessary. But I do like the idea if we can have a presence or absence. Kind of like a yes, no, and then download the whole thing to find out what's there.
Magda
What about electronic access? This was also mentioned. Electronic access has several fields and is long. It would make the display pretty difficult. So how do we concatenate, or do we leave them out?
Leeda
I could see again that it would be more for ensuring that you're touching the right records. Because I know at Duke, we have a lot of titles where we hold the print and the electronic. And we don't want to touch the wrong title in that case.
Sara
I would not rely on the Preview or 10 records. I would have to download them to ensure that I wasn't changing something I did not intend to change. If I understand you correctly, everything will be the download file. Do I understand that correctly?
Magda 14:12
That's correct. All the data from the Holdings Record will be in the CSV file.
Sara
So, in this case of only being able to see 10, it's unclear how this will help. Maybe then it's not worth putting so much time and effort into getting all these fields exactly right or including too many or too few.
Magda
And my thinking runs along the same lines as well as Sarah's. To make you feel a little bit better, we plan to change the preview to allow pagination of the results, etc. But this is not happening in the Nolana. It will be coming later once we start building the query tool. Because when you submit the list of identifiers, we can assume that those identifiers were based on a query or you have the items in front of you and you scanned the barcode. So, you know what dataset you are acting on. Once we get to running queries, then the top 10 is not going to do anything for you because you will need to see the query results. This is when we will be making changes to the preview. But this is not in Nolana. We may start talking about this in Orchid and then follow up in Poppy. So it is something in our pipeline. It is just not available here. So going back, do I understand what you're saying is that since the preview is only an abbreviated preview, you will need to go to CSV anyway. So we can be a little bit less verbose in defining what fields need the need in the preview screen. Is this correct?
Leeda
Yeah, I think so.
Sara
I just wanted to follow up briefly on something that I think it's worth noting. Just because I have a stack of 20 books and can scan their barcodes into a file does not necessarily mean I know what is in their records. I think this is worth noting because this happens to me all the time. For example, I get a list of barcodes that need to go on display. I'm changing the temporary location. A pop-up note for the circulation people is supposed to be added. But sometimes it turns out there's already information there. And so then, if I do a bulk edit without checking first whether or not that field already has information, which I cannot tell from just having the physical book in my hand, I will override that information. So we should not assume that I know what is in the records just because we have a stack of physical items. efforts.
Magda
That's a very good point because I didn't think about that.
Magda
So, I would like to look at the specific questions I have from the survey responses. So again, we are talking about identifiers here. My question is about the OCLC number. Is there an OCLC number on the holdings or just on the instance?
Sara
No, it is only the instance level from the MARC source.
Magda
Okay. So I think someone who suggested OCLC understood that when we submit the list of OCLC numbers to identify instances and then from instances go to holdings, this is something that we will be addressing through the query. So I will table this for now, as well.
Magda
The next question was about the columns. I see that we need to put a call number with all the elements in separate columns, including their call number type. So we already talked about the holding statement and electronic access. My concern is if we add electronic access to the preview, the rendering will be difficult at this point. And then the following questions are similar. One of the respondents suggested letting the user manipulate the order. This is the long-term goal, but it will not happen for Nolana. So, for now, we need to have a predefined list of columns.
Magda
And the last question was about the columns in the action menu that are not selected.
Unknown Speaker 23:18
How should statistical codes be separated because this is a multiple-entry field? Should we use a comma-separated list or a new line?
Jennifer
It looks like, for notes, they're using pipes. So that's probably fine for that two.
Magda
And call numbers we actually covered. We also have a response suggesting staff suppress. There is no staff suppression on the holdings. So I believe the respondent was referring to the instance level, which will again be drilling down to the holdings record that will be covered by the query. Electronic access, as I mentioned, worries in terms of rendering it. Is the URL the only valid field, or do you need the type of electronic access as well?
Christie
I think that in our use case, we would want to see everything but the URL because the URL is unique. And maybe the CSV is enough for this. We frequently put our platform names as the link text in the URL. And we're frequently normalizing the material specified statements. So for us, it would be materials specified statements, link text, notes, and the type.
Magda 25:53
And I understand that you may want to change that. In Nolana, we will only support changes to temporary and permanent holdings locations. The other fields will come later. But do you want to see this information rendered in the column on the preview screen?
Christie
I don't remember whether we asked for this in the survey. I don't know that this is a high priority for us. I know we have a use case for changing that, which is why I spoke up.
Magda
And I understand that these fields will be supported in the in-app approach for Holdings Record edits, but I'm not sure we need to display this data in the columns.
Sara
If this is just about the confirmation screen, I think it was Leeda who earlier said that it would be worthwhile having just kind of something indicating if it is present or not present just to have that added knowledge that you didn't get the ebook rather than the print book. Otherwise, I don't think the confirmation screen needs all this detail. In the CSV, it does need to be there, including the URL string, which I have had to do bulk changes too frequently. There are definitely use cases for needing to change the URL in batch, but that can be in the CSV, obviously.
Magda
There was one mention of including associated order and purchase order lines. Is there any feedback on that?
Magda
That would be something more at the query level. I think the usefulness of the preview screen would be more to preview the columns that I was actually taking an action on. I'm starting to think about it more in that respect.
Magda
In chat, I see Christie asking about the ability to change part of a string. Yes, in Nolana, this is available to cover common use cases, for example, changes in the email domain. Find and replace functionality will be added. It will be available for other fields down the road. Some fields, like location and date, will not be supported in Find/Replace, as it is not applicable. Is that a limitation?
Christie
That is a limitation, but there is a process.
Magda
We are at the top of the hour. See you all next time.
00:12:10 Leeda Adkins: We will often have fewer holdings IDs than item records, as some holdings will have multiple items
00:12:21 Erin Nettifee: right - i think that is the core issue here
00:17:12 Amanda Ros (she/her): I like Erin's naming suggestion
00:17:18 Autumn Faulkner (she/her): Seconded
00:17:25 Christine L Tobias: +1 Amanda/Erin
00:17:27 Autumn Faulkner (she/her): "Preview of item record matched"
00:18:18 Erin Nettifee: right - i think adding the type of record "item record" instead of "item" and the type of identifier - "holdings UUID error" instead of "error"
00:25:23 Christie Thomas (she/her): We could also have the holdings uuid as the record identifier and then the reason for error is one item was not able to be displayed. Or something similar.
00:25:40 Christie Thomas (she/her): I am nervous about displaying multiple identifier types in a single column.
00:25:40 Erin Nettifee: there's no item display here?
00:25:52 Erin Nettifee: honestly i think the app would crash if there was corrupted item data
00:25:54 Christie Thomas (she/her): There is in the Preview section.
00:26:11 Erin Nettifee: right, i'm conflating display with UI, you are right
00:26:27 Christie Thomas (she/her): I could have been more precise.
00:26:46 Christie Thomas (she/her): Thanks, Magda.
00:27:31 Leeda Adkins: Question: when we download a csv of the preview file, do we get a csv with only the columns chosen to display, or all columns available to display?
00:32:25 Erin Nettifee: I think all columns, but it's worth double-checking
00:42:14 Erin Nettifee: I need to drop off - thanks all
00:43:51 Leeda Adkins: Agreed Sara
00:43:56 Christie Thomas (she/her): That is a good point.
00:45:00 Leeda Adkins: My thinking is running along the same lines now
00:47:40 jeanette kalchik: I see the preview's function as making sure I got the correct file.
00:51:22 Donald A Depoorter: Magda, could you enlarge your screen please?
00:58:24 Christie Thomas (she/her): Will be able to change just a part of a string using bulk edit?
00:58:40 Sara Colglazier: I hope so
01:01:54 Christie Thomas (she/her): That is good to know! I apologize for having missed so much and being unaware of where we are as I rejoin this group.
01:03:26 Sara Colglazier: Have a nice time in Poland!