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TimeItemWhoNotes
1 minScribeAll
Florian Gleixner is next, followed by Ingolf Kuss

Reminder:  Please copy/paste the Zoom chat into the notes.  If you miss it, this is saved along with the meeting recording, but having it here has benefits.

60 minEureka Adoption All
  • Timing of Eureka adoption and Okapi retirement
  • How does the TCR process factor into this?
  • Updating the OST pages?
  • What would be the practical implications of making Trillium rather than Sunflower the Eureka release?

Notes


Expand
titlePrevious Notes

Craig: What happens if the adoption gets pushed further to another FOLIO release?

List of modules for an RFC? - impressive list


Julian:

2 decisions here: Do we adopt for Sunflower even though it's technically past that deadline? The approved technology stack is already approved for Sunflower.

Is there an overlap period for supporting both Okapi/Eureka?

SSO/login modules have completely changed in Eureka.


Marc Johnson:

Does the community approve adopting Eureka in the first place?

Do we have a special process for this?

Points out Ebsco is a large contributor to the community technically

The assumption - At some point if Eureka is adopted by the community at large, is it a given that Okapi envs will stop being supported by the community at large?

There are a set of decisions that need to be made - Community support? Adoption? Need a transition plan? How do we structure these decisions?

Multiple options on the table:

Support Eureka and Eureka only from Sunflower.

Combined support from Sunflower until a future release.

Support Okapi for more long term with transition plan

Next steps? Experience in early adopter program?


Craig:

There are cost implications for supporting both Okapi/Eureka.

Several back-end modules for login no longer needed in Eureka.

Over time less code that needs to be maintained, management users and tokens handled at a higher level.

Concrete action items for next meeting?


Jen:

Isn't the community technically supporting both platforms at the moment?

We are making a decision for the whole community here..

Is it true that development is supported with Okapi on Sunflower? Or after?

Is the early adopter program an actual program?


Vince:

Lots of effort to test both environments.

Development could shift to primarily Eureka environments in Rancher.

New modules have a different workflows, and a different permissions model on the management level.

New development is being done on Eureka, if it needs to be tested on Okapi - but who would be addressing these issues? Another way is not to do that, and support the other way around.


Jason:

Putting the cart before the horse - still need to vote on adoption or not.

Asks about what development resources would be shifted or different with Okapi vs Eureka.

We need to decide if there's a transition plan, because some have stated you can just run on Okapi as a fall-back?

Who in the community would support this? Not many outside of Ebsco who have exp. with running the platform right now..


Kristin:

Needs to be able to organize their platform upgrades/transitions.

Points out that this platform is currently only running on AWS infra - no other "local" or "non-AWS" examples out there.

Will Eureka be supported for local installations? Adoption needs to be planned securely and sustainably.

Needs to be vetted for local installations by the community.


Mark V:

The more people that start getting involved in the early adoption, the better off we'll be.

...

(More notes to come after I review the recording, hard to keep up with the convo...)


Overall chicken in egg scenario: Community is blocked on adoption until TC agrees, but community doesn't have experience to help in deciding to adopt or to support.

Craig, Mark and Vince will come up with narrowed options based on discussion.

Notes:

  • Craig McNally recap from last meetingImage Removed
    • suggested transition table:

Image Added

Jenn Colt: Community will not be able to run a bugfest

Marc Johnson: bugfests need capacity for people to do the testing, and this would cause double work

Wayne Schneider: do we already have bugfests for the two platforms

Craig McNally: yes

Jenn Colt: bugfixing has to done for the two platforms, and do functional tests have to be done in both platforms?

Ingolf Kuss: do we have resources for two platforms in devops/bugfest?

Craig McNally: CSPs documentation says, that bugs shall be fixed in current and the 2 releases before

Marc Johnson: in reality: the last two generally available releases.

Wayne Schneider: is this document (table above) a proposal the TC wants to decide to?

Craig McNally / Marc Johnson: Just a idea to start discussion

Jenn Colt: Is this Ebscos timeline

Craig McNally: will check

Ingolf Kuss: Difference between CSP and bugfixes

Jenn Colt and Marc Johnson: Does the community commit to support Okapi or will the community switch to Eureka due to lack of possibility to support Okapi further?

Marc Johnson: Will bug reports will be accepted, if the reproduction is only done in one of the platforms?

Marc Johnson: Developers and implementers need to get kickstarted for Eureka

Craig McNally: Early adopters already committed - knowledge spreads

Wayne Schneider: different people and groups are trying to get involved with Eureka already

Marc Johnson: what information does the community need for a decision in the tri-council in january to be able to commit to the plan to be Eureca-centric for sunflower.

Jenn Colt: If something goes wrong and Eureka will not work, then the decision has to be rethinked.

Craig McNally: How could proposals for decisions look at?

Jenn Colt: All energy goes to Eureka or we try to support both for a transition time.

Mark Veksler: Community could help enhancing development documentation

Marc Johnson: Investment will be lower when we only have to support one platform

Craig McNally: Benefits also from external managed parts like keycloak and kong

Mark Veksler: Do we all agree, that Eureka is the right way, and are we talking about timing? And can Maccabee Levine or others help on developer documentation?

Craig McNally and Jenn Colt will outline a proposal - we will need another discussion.

Wayne Schneider: do we need CSPs or do we provide CSPs for Sunflower with Okapi?



Background


Slack conversations:

RFC in preparation:

Relevant dates:

  • Sunflower OST acceptance: Sept 27, 2024
  • Sunflower scope deadline: Sept 27, 2024
  • January tri-council meeting: Jan 13, 2025
  • Sunflower API freeze? Jan 24 2025
  • Sunflower module acceptance deadline: Jan 24, 2025
  • FOLIO support period is the current release and two releases back? Officially Supported Technologies
  • RFC public review timebox: 1 month
-Zoom Chat


17:12:26 From Wayne Schneider To Everyone:
Most Okapi development and bug fixing is currently community-based (thanks, Julian!)
17:15:23 From Jenn Colt To Everyone:
So then the triage isn’t about ‘data import’ but whether it is interaction with the api and then it goes to okapi or to eureka, so my concern about dev teams isn’t really relevant?
17:16:02 From Julian Ladisch To Everyone:
"Current" means the current development for the next release.
17:25:27 From Wayne Schneider To Everyone:
Replying to "So then the triage i..."

I think your concern is totally relevant. I was just pointing out that there are some community developers that are supporting the legacy platform.

I think in practice that if there is a data import issue that only affects environments running Okapi that community and EBSCO/EPAM would likely work together to try to resolve.
17:26:12 From Wayne Schneider To Everyone:
Replying to "So then the triage i..."

(that is, my experience is that development teams are very supportive and helpful and not terribly interested in just finger-pointing)
17:28:31 From Jenn Colt To Everyone:
Reacted to "(that is, my experie..." with 👍
17:29:20 From Wayne Schneider To Everyone:
I believe the scope is Okapi/mod-authtoken/mod-permissions/mod-login/mod-users?
17:32:37 From Jenn Colt To Everyone:
We have non-EBSCO hosting folks here, what do they need to get to Eureka at Sunflower?
17:32:48 From Craig McNally To Everyone:
Reacted to "We have non-EBSCO ho..." with 👍
17:33:47 From Ingolf Kuss To Everyone:
Replying to "We have non-EBSCO ho..."

more experience and maybe training
17:34:17 From josh greben To Everyone:
How many organizations do we expect to be remaining on Okapi?
17:34:19 From Julian Ladisch To Everyone:
The "eureka-early-adopters" initiative provides extended documentation:
17:34:27 From Marc Johnson To Everyone:
Thanks Craig, the early adopters was the initiative I was referring to
17:34:28 From Julian Ladisch To Everyone:
https://folio-org.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/FOLIJET/pages/442269739/Kubernetes+Example+Deployment
https://folio-org.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/FOLIJET/pages/438927370/Install+FOLIO
https://folio-org.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/FOLIJET/pages/438730797/Hostnames+Configuration
https://folio-org.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/FOLIJET/pages/441843733/Single+Server+Fresh+Install
18:00:28 From Mark Veksler To Everyone:
i have to drop. thank you.