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2025-06-30 Meeting notes

2025-06-30 Meeting notes

Date

Jun 30, 2025 

Attendees 

  • @Jenn Colt

  • @Craig McNally

  • @Oleksii Petrenko

  • @Ingolf Kuss

  • @Tod Olson

  • @Maccabee Levine

  • @Florian Gleixner

  • @Jason Root

  • @VBar

  • @Julian Ladisch

  • @Marc Johnson

  • @Matt Weaver

  •  

  •  

Time

Item

Who

Notes

Time

Item

Who

Notes

1 min

Scribe

@Florian Gleixner

@Jakub Skoczen is next, followed by @Joshua Greben

Reminder:  Please copy/paste the Zoom chat into the notes.  If you miss it, this is saved along with the meeting recording, but having it here has benefits.

5-15 min

Liaison Updates

@Maccabee Levine

@Tod Olson

@Jakub Skoczen

@Craig McNally

  • CC:  @Maccabee Levine: No CC meeting this week

  • PC: @Tod Olson / @Marc Johnson: No PC meeting this week

  • RMS Group:

  • Security Team: @Craig McNally:

    • Meeting will be this week

  • Eureka Early Adopters:  @Craig McNally:

    • Latest status updates can be found here , spreadsheet there is up-to-date

    • Meeting every other week now

    • Tri council meeting in August to discuss other proposals

  • Community Driven Development (@Jenn Colt / @Maccabee Levine):

    • Continued discussion of scope as well as the three other proposals related to funding development that now exist. @Jeremy Huff is working on a CDD proposal that can then be compared to the other three proposals. This group might volunteer to prep a comparison document for the tri-council meeting in August

5-10 min

Upcoming Meetings

All

 

  • Jun 30, 2025 - Regular TC Meeting

  • Jul 2, 2025 - CANCELLED

  • Jul 7, 2025 - CANCELLED

  • Jul 9, 2025 - CANCELLED

  • Jul 14, 2025 - Regular TC meeting - Update decision https://folio-org.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/TC/pages/309657609 with new plan and onboard new members

  • Jul 16, 2025 - Dedicated discussion - TBD/continuation of onboarding if needed

  • Dedicated Discussion Topics:

    • New TC member orientation in Early July

      • What do new members need to do?

      • What does TC need to do around permissions in Wiki, GitHub; other administrative tasks?

      • Appoint another co-chair

    • FOLIO contribution network proposal:

      • @Craig McNally Is this in discussion or for approval?

      • @Jenn Colt Still in discussion

      • Topic for next Wednesday’s meeting.

        • What would TC’s perspective be on how a contribution network would operate?

        • There are two related proposals that need to be considered and should be discussed more broadly.

    • Developer Advocate

    • Evaluating existing modules

    • Communication plan to promote updates to OST pages

      • Need to update OST pages with communication plan changes

      • Need a retro on changes to OST(?)

    • TC Roles and Responsibilities

      • Has this been influenced by CC adopting a vision statement that the community should direct FOLIO development?

    • OST discussion around the Grails 7 and Java 17 issues; get to talk to the stakeholders

      • There might be a security issue to it.

      • This is separate from the OST topic above.

      • We might not be able to upgrade to Grails 7 for the Sunflower and we may not be able to get to this on Trillium.

        • Is this in scope of Trillium, or do we need to put this on Umbrellaleaf?

        • We need to schedule a meeting on this with the appropriate parties to plan this out.

    • Issue about the Eureka release schedule - do we want to come back to it ?

    • Continued third-party support during release periods

      • Prompted by Kong/Keycloak and Spring Boot, plus extra-long Trillium cycle

      • Should probably talk about this more generally, beyond these specific examples

    • mod-mosaic and the Gobi group.

 

Today:

Evaluation of existing modules:

@Maccabee Levine created a spreadsheet

with some information like age of repository on existing modules which could be used to see which modules need review. Julian also had the idea in slack to use sonar metrics to decide which modules get picked.

0 min

TCR Board Review

All

2 new requests for technical evaluation

@Jenn Colt will look at the rotation, who will have to do the evaluations

0 min

Technical Council Sub-Groups Updates

All

Presently there are no active TC subgroups

1 min

GitHub RFCs

Wiki RFCs

All

Anything we need to discuss here?

  •  

10 min

Decision Log

All + Oleksii

 

Previous:

No new decisions. Related to mod-configuration:

  • Deprecation of mod-configuration https://folio-org.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/TC/pages/309657609

    • @Craig McNally some teams still use it. Developers are aware of the deprecation. Do we need to follow the timing plan with a readonly transition step or or can we just remove mod-configuration in Trillium or Umbrellaleaf? Probably developers need some time?

    • @Jenn Colt Is managing this via RFC unusual?

    • @Craig McNally We did it for some other things too: Postgres / Eureka…

    • @Craig McNally will talk to developers, if they can make the transition, then stick to the plan, dropping the readonly phase, when not needed. If developers need more time, extend the plan to Umbrellaleaf.

    • @Florian Gleixner if the plan can not be fulfilled, a formal decision to extend the plan should be made.

  • Oleksii P. doesn’t have an answer for the scope of remaining work yet. Waiting to hear back from individual teams. Stay tuned; we should have an answer soon.

  • NOTE: does not seem feasible in Trillium;

    • need to discuss how to change the plan so we don’t keep kicking down the road.

Today:

@Oleksii Petrenko : https://folio-org.atlassian.net/browse/FOLIO-4017

Oleksii tries to push teams to get work done. Not all work is planned at the moment. Significant work should be done with trillium.

@Craig McNally : So the plan from the decision can not be fulfilled. Shall we change the plan to remove mod-configuration to Umbrellaleaf?

@Oleksii Petrenko : will talk to all affected dev-teams and ask , if this is possible, should be done in Umbrellaleaf

@Maccabee Levine : Then we should update the decision.

  • strike out old plan and write down new one?

  • create a new DR which updates old one?

  • other possibilities?

@Oleksii Petrenko : will join the next TC session to report about timeline

 

Other things Oleksii wants to note or discuss

@Oleksii Petrenko : The release plan was extended with:

  • Deadline for new Eureka based appplication

  • Bugfest env preparation: modules configuration details

  • Eureka application app-platform-minimal release deadline

  • Eureka applications release deadline

  • Eureka-application platform-lsp release branch creation

@Oleksii Petrenko : Okapi based reference environments are not needed any more - they should be shut down to save costs. Snapshot code is for Trillium, there is no guarantee, that this will work with Okapi in the future.

@Jason Root : Is working on it. Should be done this fall.

@Julian Ladisch : Will Karate tests switch to Eureka based platform?

@Oleksii Petrenko : Already switched.

 

 

 

10 min

Officially Supported Technologies (OST)

All + Oleksii

 

Previous:

Anything we need to discuss here, e.g. related to folio-kong/folio-keycloak?

  • Is basically done.

  • From last meeting:

    • Action item: update OST to include the new section and the policy that hosts are encouraged to stay on the latest version. Keep text regarding support policies and release predictions - first draft done

      • @Jenn Colt did the editing, but no communication done yet. She will post in the appropriate channels. - done

      • @Craig McNally to reach out to

    • Action item: Release management needs to be made aware @Jakub Skoczen

Today:

@Craig McNally : How are updates from Keycloak / Kong are tested

@Oleksii Petrenko : Kitfox team will create new containers and test these. If tests succeed it can be merged to master, then we can upgrade the bugfest environment to make sure, that nothing got broken.

 

1 min

Elections

All

 

  • Reminder to vote - if voting is still possible?

NA

Zoom Chat

 

17:05:22 From Maccabee Levine To Everyone:
Oleksii is here today, he was probably at RSMG :)
Oleksii_Petrenko1:👍

17:25:46 From Maccabee Levine To Everyone:
Assigned to exactly one application descriptor within the FOLIO Community LSP Platform, specified in the Jira task for this module evaluation (3, 5)

 

17:46:49 From Maccabee Levine To Everyone:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_GGccpX4E0UBs1xZbCkxj24BopsUN_uUo9JCPEm8suQ/edit?usp=sharing

17:51:05 From Maccabee Levine To Everyone:
As it's the last meeting of the FY, big thanks to all the people whose terms are ending!!!
Ingolf Kuss:💯



Topic Backlog

Decision Log Review

All

Review decisions that are in progress.  Can any of them be accepted?  rejected?

Translation Subgroup

All

Since we're having trouble finding volunteers for a subgroup, maybe we can make progress during a dedicated discussion session?

Communicating Breaking Changes

All

Currently there is a PoC, developed by @Maccabee Levine, of a utility to catalog Github PRs that have been labeled with the "breaking change" label. We would like to get developer feedback on the feasibility of this label being used more often, and the usefulness of this utility. 

Officially Supported Technologies - Upkeep

All

Previous Notes:

  • A workflow for these pages. When do they transition from one state to another. Do we even need statuses at all ?

Stripes architecture group has some questions about the Poppy release.

Zak: A handshake between developers, dev ops and the TC. Who makes that decision and how do we pass along that knowledge ? E.g. changes in Nodes and in the UI boxes. How to communicate this ? We have a large number of teams, all have to be aware of it.  TC should be alerted that changes are happening. We have a couple of dedicated channels for that. Most dev ops have subscribed to these channels. How can dev ops folk raise issues to the next level of community awareness ? There hasn't been a specific piece of TC to move that along.

Craig: There is a fourth group, "Capacity Planning" or "Release Planning". Slack is the de facto communication channel.  There are no objections to using Slack. An example is the Java 17 RFC. 

Craig: The TC gets it on the agenda and we will discuss it. The TC gets the final say.

Marc Johnson: We shouldn’t use the DevOps Channel. The dev ops folks have made it clear that it should only be used for support requests made to them.

Jakub: Our responsibility is to avoid piling up technical debt.

Marc: Some set of people have to actually make the call. Who lowers the chequered flag ?

Craig: It needs to ultimately come to the TC at least for awareness. There is a missing piece. Capacity Planning needs to provide input here. 

Marc: Stakeholders / Capacity Planning could make that decision. Who makes the decision ? Is it the government or is it some parts of the body ?

Marc: the developers community, the dev ops community and sys ops are involved. For example the Spring Framework discussion or the Java 17 discussion. But it was completely separate to the TC decision. It is a coordination and communication effort.

Marc: Maybe the TC needs to let go that they are the decision makers so that they be a moderating group.

Jakub: I agree with Marc. But we are not a system operating group. Dependency management should be in the responsibility of Release management. There are structures in the project for that.

Jason Root: I agree with Jakub and with Marc also. Policies should drive operational/release/support aspects of Folio.

Jason Root: If the idea of “support” is that frameworks are supported, then of course the project should meet that.

Marc Johnson
Some group needs to inform OleksAii when a relevant policy event occurs.
These documents effectively ARE the manifestation of the policy.

Craig: This is a topic for the next Monday session.

Craig to see if Oleksii Petrenko could join us to discuss the process for updating the officially supported technologies lists.



Dev Documentation Visibility

All

Possible topic/activity for a Wednesday session:

Discuss/brainstorm:

  • Ideas for the type of developer-facing documentation we think would be most helpful for new developers

  • How we might bring existing documentation up to date and ensure it's consistent 

  • etc.

API linting within our backend modules

All

https://folio-project.slack.com/archives/CAQ7L02PP/p1713343461518409



Hello team, I would like to discuss API linting within our backend modules. Some time ago, we transitioned our linting process from Jenkins to GitHub Actions as outlined in https://folio-org.atlassian.net/browse/FOLIO-3678. I am assuming that this move was done via some technical council decision. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
In my observations, I've found two problems:

  1. Schema linting does not occur if the schemas are in YAML format.

  2. There are issues with resolving some deeper references during API linting.

Although I'm unsure about how to improve the existing linting implementations within Folio, I propose to consider an open-source solution that handles OpenAPI linting effectively and allows us to define custom rules. For your reference: https://stoplight.io/open-source/spectral A test of this solution can be found in this PR: https://github.com/folio-org/mod-search/pull/567. The same PR also provides an example of custom rule definition: https://github.com/folio-org/mod-search/pull/567/files#diff-d5da7cb43c444434994b76f3b04aa6e702c09e938de09dbc09d72569d611d9ab.Also, by employing 'Spectral', I discovered AsyncAPI (https://www.asyncapi.com/en), an API design tool similar to OpenAPI but for asynchronous interactions. I suggest that we consider using AsyncAPI in FOLIO to generate documentation for Kafka interactions.



PR Templates

All

https://folio-project.slack.com/archives/CAQ7L02PP/p1713445649504769

Hello team, Small request to consider.
Regarding pr templates.

  1. From my perspective, pr template is not good idea. Even the biggest open source projects that are contributed by many people don't have any pr template. Currently what we have for acq modules https://github.com/folio-org/mod-orders-storage/blob/master/PULL_REQUEST_TEMPLATE.md

  2. These pr template is inconsistent in different teams.

What I suggest is that, pr template shouldn't be any instructions, because most developer who are creating pr have already understand the rules. If we put just two section into template, it will encourage developers to write more about their work and that lead to knowledge  sharing among developers.

Proposed Mod Kafka

All

https://folio-project.slack.com/archives/CAQ7L02PP/p1714471592534689

Mike Taylor

Proposal. If and only if a FOLIO instance is running Kafka, it should insert and enable a module called mod-kafka, which consists entirely of a module descriptor that says it provides the interface kafka. The purpose is so that other modules can use the standard <IfInterface> and similar tools to determine whether they should attempt Kafka operations. Rationale: the FOLIO ILS depends absolutely on Kafka, but other uses of the platform will not. One such example: a dev platform that includes only mod-users, used as a source of change events for Metadb.