2025-05-19 Meeting notes

Date

19 May 2025

Attendees

Time	Item	Who	Notes
1 min	Scribe	All	Tod Olson is next, followed by Kevin Day Reminder: Please copy/paste the Zoom chat into the notes. If you miss it, this is saved along with the meeting recording, but having it here has benefits.
5-15 min	Liaison Updates	Maccabee Levine Tod Olson Jakub Skoczen Craig McNally	CC: Maccabee Levine: Nomination form: https://forms.gle/Ktou1YPfp5ULMnpb6 Community driven development volunteers? CC meeting this Friday due to upcoming US Memorial Day holiday Expect an announcement about community-driven development presentation for WOLFcon, will be opportunities for TC involvement PC: Tod Olson - Marc Johnson No meeting in favor of quarterly tri-council, see 2025-05-15 Tri-Council Meeting notes RMS Group: Sunflower slight delay due to testing, meeting on Friday to revisit Security Team: Craig McNally: No updates Eureka Early Adopters: Craig McNally: Latest status updates can be found here , spreadsheet there is up-to-date K. Day and J. Root getting their implementations unblocked, expecting working platforms soon. Ingolf Kuss now participating, finished with Kong & Keycloak prereqs
5-10 min	Upcoming Meetings	All	19 May 2025 - Regular TC meeting (& OST) 21 May 2025 - Dedicated Discussion - Okapi support proposal 26 May 2025 - ~~Regular TC meeting~~ - moved due to US holiday 28 May 2025 - Regular TC meeting - moved due to US Memorial Day 02 Jun 2025 - Regular TC meeting 04 Jun 2025 - Dedicated Discussion - Kong/Keycloak and flower releases 09 Jun 2025 - Regular TC meeting 11 Jun 2025 - Dedicated Discussion - Environmental variables Dedicated Discussion Topics: Kong/Keycloak and flower releases - treat them like infrastructure or like modules? Okapi support proposal Support Ramsons with Okapi until 2026-03-31: – FOLIO Security Group's decision regarding extention of Ramsons support period: "Secuity group suggests to not extend the support period because Spring based modules are out of support, unless all Spring base modules get updated to a supported Spring version." Core Platform team can release the 6 Okapi-specific modules for Sunflower: Okapi multi-flower-release 6.2.x, mod-authtoken 2.17.x, mod-login-saml 2.10.x, mod-consortia 1.3.x, mod-login 7.13.x, mod-permissions 6.7.x Institutions that want to run Sunflower with Okapi need to set up a Sunflower Okapi Bugfest environment. Environmental variables - Kevin/Sysops inconsistencies among variable naming across modules Ingolf will address this in Sys Ops SIG 2025-05-07 Sys Ops & Management SIG Agenda and Meeting Notes some problems with increased memory (from Q → R) and JAVA_OPTIONS parameters. Many modules have to be adapted for more memory. Many out-of-memory events and heap-space events. problems with the ENV variable. Kafka topics use that and also the Elasticsearch index. Maybe the ENV variable should be named better. Maybe it should be only for Kafka. It is not good to use the ENV variable for two purposes. Upgrades get broken if you don't change the value of ENV between releases on a muti-tenant system. env variables with dots: e.g. okapi.url , tenant.url, kong.url , am.url . This is inconsistent and can cause errors. For mod-fqm-manager, there are lowercase variables with dots. See: Open Group Base Specifications Issue 6, IEEE Std 1003.1, 2004 Edition, Environment Variables Spring Boot doc: Externalized Configuration Binding From Environment Variables where are the pain points ? What problems have system admins encountered ? variables with different names in different modules, but which express the same quantity inconsistent naming (KC_, KEYCLOAK_, ...) 2025-05-12 Sysops did have this discussion, Ingolf Kuss will share the notes in Slack. Developer Advocate Evaluating existing modules Communication plan to promote updates to OST pages Need to update OST pages with communication plan changes Need a retro on changes to OST(?) TC Roles and Responsibilities Has this been influenced by CC adopting a vision statement that the community should direct FOLIO development? ~~FQM RFC~~ WOLFcon Planning OST discussion around the Grails 7 and Java 17 issues; get to talk to the stakeholders there might be a securiry issue to it OST Trillium: Spring Boot 4.0: As the next minor version after 3.5 is 4.0 we should replace or Spring Boot 3.6 decision with Spring Boot 4.0: https://spring.io/projects/spring-boot#support Issue about the Eureka release schedule - do we want to come back to it ? Continued third-party support during release periods Prompted by Kong/Keycloak and Spring Boot, plus extra-long Trillium cycle Should probably talk about this more generally, beyond these specific examples
0 min	TCR Board Review	All	Nothing on the board
0 min	Technical Council Sub-Groups Updates	All	Nothing to discuss today
5 min	GitHub RFCs Wiki RFCs	All	Check in on documentation updates - Joshua Greben Joshua Greben went through all the pages, removed GitHub references and changed to refer to wiki. Should be done. TC members should review. Circle back next Monday. Joshua Greben will reach out to the authors of the RFCs in GitHub to retroactively add (stub records) on the wiki, linking out the RFC. Example in RFC log entry for application formalization. You need some metadata (which is already on the template) for it to show up in the list.
5-10 min	Decision Log	All
10 min	Officially Supported Technologies (OST)	All	From Julian Ladisch on Slack: When we decided about the Spring Boot version for Trillium we assumed that the next minor version after Spring Boot 3.5 is Spring Boot 3.6. However, it's Spring Boot 4.0. I suggest that we change 3.6 to 4.0 in https://folio-org.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/TC/pages/730891059/Trillium Concern about breaking changes and Spring Boot versions going out of support during Trillium release support window Some EPAM team usually tries this early Need to conform to Spring Boot schedule best we can, not much option Looks like we will need to plan to upgrade Spring Boot mid-release cycle if we are serious about this The first Spring Boot 4.0.0 snapshot version is expected next month (see also https://folio-org.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/FOLIJET/pages/758841345/Migration+to+Spring+Boot+4.0).
10 min	Vagrant box support (related to Equinix)	Craig	The proposal from DevOps is to support vagrant boxes for Q and R, and then stop doing it going forward. Wayne thinks this is about 1 weeks worth of focused effort on the DevOps side and he will let us know when they might be able to schedule this work. Equinix is provider supplying the environment in which we build Vagrant boxes Some people still using Vagrant boxes, but not most SysOps/DevOps suggest supporting through Q & R, then let it drop; extending further requires a lot of extra tooling; goal is formal approval from PC Mainly useful for Okapi environment, not for Eureka About one week of work for Q & R; much more for Eureka Note this is still an officially supported path for a development environment, especially for UI dev; Suggestion that we need a replacement before announcing sunset of Vagrant boxes Vagrant has been practically superseded by Rancher environments for some years now, though challenges with who pays for these environments Observation: tend to be obstacles (bureaucratic and financial) for developers at universites to spin up a Rancher environment, may not have the needed local resources; obstacle for community development CC might be good venue for this question of how to provide development environments, and TC is the right body to bring the question In this case TC is mainly communication, we are not in position to make alternative recommendations, not in our remit Decision TC approves by lazy consensus Next steps Multiple communications: communication in development channel and folio-stripes-architecture, folio-stripes-updates Update documentation (who?) Jason to communicate to DevOps Communicate to CC that one alternative to Rancher environments for devs is going away, Jenn Colt will inform CC
NA	Zoom Chat		10:09:25 From Marc Johnson to Everyone: If the Okapi support is endorsed, we’ll need to (potentially substantively) change Sunflower OST (and maybe Trilium) 10:14:35 From Marc Johnson to Everyone: Except we typically would not do that mid-release cycle 10:16:25 From Maccabee Levine to Everyone: Apologies I will have to drop off the call at the :45m mark. 10:18:30 From Ingolf Kuss to Everyone: https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/000095399/basedefs/xbd_chap08.html 10:19:24 From Ingolf Kuss to Everyone: For mod-fqm-manager, there are lowercase variables with dots. 10:20:52 From Ingolf Kuss to Everyone: Consider this Readme: https://github.com/folio-org/mgr-tenant-entitlements okapi.url kong.url KONG_ADMIN_URL 10:23:56 From Julian Ladisch to Everyone: https://docs.spring.io/spring-boot/reference/features/external-config.html#features.external-config.typesafe-configuration-properties.relaxed-binding.environment-variables 10:24:10 From Julian Ladisch to Everyone: To convert a property name in the canonical-form to an environment variable name you can follow these rules: Replace dots (.) with underscores (_). Remove any dashes (-). Convert to uppercase. For example, the configuration property spring.main.log-startup-info would be an environment variable named SPRING_MAIN_LOGSTARTUPINFO. Day, Kevin:👍 10:27:57 From Craig McNally to Everyone: @joshg it looks like the problem is the page properties thing I was mentioning 10:28:51 From Craig McNally to Everyone: This one is what it should look like: 10:28:53 From Craig McNally to Everyone: {FDBD7195-522D-488B-8DC9-BCD055222DCA}.png 10:29:23 From Craig McNally to Everyone: and this one does not have it: 10:29:25 From Craig McNally to Everyone: {51BDDF61-DDB3-4592-B618-45E3565DA5BF}.png 10:42:18 From Marc Johnson to Everyone: How does eureka change the value of the vagrant boxes in general? 10:42:25 From Craig McNally to Everyone: Link to my question in #folio-development: https://open-libr-foundation.slack.com/archives/C210RP0T1/p1733848257207679 10:45:46 From Jason Root to Everyone: However, yeah those Rancher envs may be scaling back or going away in some aspects.. As Marc just said. 🙂 Marc Johnson:👍 10:49:17 From Marc Johnson to Everyone: Those challenges were intrinsic in the move to rancher years ago 10:56:24 From Jason Root to Everyone: I’ll forward this on to the DevOps gents on ID’s side

Topic Backlog
Decision Log Review	All	Review decisions that are in progress. Can any of them be accepted? rejected?
Translation Subgroup	All	Since we're having trouble finding volunteers for a subgroup, maybe we can make progress during a dedicated discussion session?
Communicating Breaking Changes	All	Currently there is a PoC, developed by Maccabee Levine, of a utility to catalog Github PRs that have been labeled with the "breaking change" label. We would like to get developer feedback on the feasibility of this label being used more often, and the usefulness of this utility.
Officially Supported Technologies - Upkeep	All	Previous Notes: A workflow for these pages. When do they transition from one state to another. Do we even need statuses at all ? Stripes architecture group has some questions about the Poppy release. Zak: A handshake between developers, dev ops and the TC. Who makes that decision and how do we pass along that knowledge ? E.g. changes in Nodes and in the UI boxes. How to communicate this ? We have a large number of teams, all have to be aware of it. TC should be alerted that changes are happening. We have a couple of dedicated channels for that. Most dev ops have subscribed to these channels. How can dev ops folk raise issues to the next level of community awareness ? There hasn't been a specific piece of TC to move that along. Craig: There is a fourth group, "Capacity Planning" or "Release Planning". Slack is the de facto communication channel. There are no objections to using Slack. An example is the Java 17 RFC. Craig: The TC gets it on the agenda and we will discuss it. The TC gets the final say. Marc Johnson: We shouldn’t use the DevOps Channel. The dev ops folks have made it clear that it should only be used for support requests made to them. Jakub: Our responsibility is to avoid piling up technical debt. Marc: Some set of people have to actually make the call. Who lowers the chequered flag ? Craig: It needs to ultimately come to the TC at least for awareness. There is a missing piece. Capacity Planning needs to provide input here. Marc: Stakeholders / Capacity Planning could make that decision. Who makes the decision ? Is it the government or is it some parts of the body ? Marc: the developers community, the dev ops community and sys ops are involved. For example the Spring Framework discussion or the Java 17 discussion. But it was completely separate to the TC decision. It is a coordination and communication effort. Marc: Maybe the TC needs to let go that they are the decision makers so that they be a moderating group. Jakub: I agree with Marc. But we are not a system operating group. Dependency management should be in the responsibility of Release management. There are structures in the project for that. Jason Root: I agree with Jakub and with Marc also. Policies should drive operational/release/support aspects of Folio. Jason Root: If the idea of “support” is that frameworks are supported, then of course the project should meet that. Marc Johnson Some group needs to inform OleksAii when a relevant policy event occurs. These documents effectively ARE the manifestation of the policy. Craig: This is a topic for the next Monday session. Craig to see if Oleksii Petrenko could join us to discuss the process for updating the officially supported technologies lists.
Dev Documentation Visibility	All	Possible topic/activity for a Wednesday session: Discuss/brainstorm: Ideas for the type of developer-facing documentation we think would be most helpful for new developers How we might bring existing documentation up to date and ensure it's consistent etc.
API linting within our backend modules	All	https://folio-project.slack.com/archives/CAQ7L02PP/p1713343461518409 Hello team, I would like to discuss API linting within our backend modules. Some time ago, we transitioned our linting process from Jenkins to GitHub Actions as outlined in https://folio-org.atlassian.net/browse/FOLIO-3678. I am assuming that this move was done via some technical council decision. Please correct me if I'm wrong. In my observations, I've found two problems: Schema linting does not occur if the schemas are in YAML format. There are issues with resolving some deeper references during API linting. Although I'm unsure about how to improve the existing linting implementations within Folio, I propose to consider an open-source solution that handles OpenAPI linting effectively and allows us to define custom rules. For your reference: https://stoplight.io/open-source/spectral A test of this solution can be found in this PR: https://github.com/folio-org/mod-search/pull/567. The same PR also provides an example of custom rule definition: https://github.com/folio-org/mod-search/pull/567/files#diff-d5da7cb43c444434994b76f3b04aa6e702c09e938de09dbc09d72569d611d9ab.Also, by employing 'Spectral', I discovered AsyncAPI (https://www.asyncapi.com/en), an API design tool similar to OpenAPI but for asynchronous interactions. I suggest that we consider using AsyncAPI in FOLIO to generate documentation for Kafka interactions.
PR Templates	All	https://folio-project.slack.com/archives/CAQ7L02PP/p1713445649504769 Hello team, Small request to consider. Regarding pr templates. From my perspective, pr template is not good idea. Even the biggest open source projects that are contributed by many people don't have any pr template. Currently what we have for acq modules https://github.com/folio-org/mod-orders-storage/blob/master/PULL_REQUEST_TEMPLATE.md These pr template is inconsistent in different teams. What I suggest is that, pr template shouldn't be any instructions, because most developer who are creating pr have already understand the rules. If we put just two section into template, it will encourage developers to write more about their work and that lead to knowledge sharing among developers.
Proposed Mod Kafka	All	https://folio-project.slack.com/archives/CAQ7L02PP/p1714471592534689 Mike Taylor Proposal. If and only if a FOLIO instance is running Kafka, it should insert and enable a module called mod-kafka, which consists entirely of a module descriptor that says it provides the interface kafka. The purpose is so that other modules can use the standard <IfInterface> and similar tools to determine whether they should attempt Kafka operations. Rationale: the FOLIO ILS depends absolutely on Kafka, but other uses of the platform will not. One such example: a dev platform that includes only mod-users, used as a source of change events for Metadb.