Meeting Time:    8 am EST /  2 pm CET / 1 pm UK

Call in Number:     https://zoom.us/j/995679876 

Meeting URL:  https://zoom.us/j/995679876 Password needed: please see link below

https://folio-org.atlassian.net/wiki/display/COMMUNITY/FOLIO+Meetings+with+Zoom

ERM SIG Folio Wiki: https://folio-org.atlassian.net/wiki/display/ERMSIG/

Google Folder: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/17X3tr6siZH8iS07kGcjAqUNl01zVrJmB

Terms and definitions: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vue-mbcULpZivWu69a7nAZEdC-H2yXPQqSblbL_0J6U

Slack Channel: # erm-team

Agenda Feb 9th 2022

Convener: Martina S.

Notetaker: Martina T.

Housekeeping

• All: Please edit the attendees list below and indicate when you are there!

• Next ERM meeting:  Feb 23rd
  
  

• all questions and topics for the ERM implementers meeting can be posted on this confluence page: https://folio-org.atlassian.net/wiki/x/SABS

• Open discuss posts: right now no new posts regarding erm

• PC minutes Jan 27th

• PC minutes Feb 3rd

Agenda items

1. Development progress -  ERM Sprint 133
   
   

2. Discussion on acceptable delay for data to be in sync across apps 
   
   

Minutes

• Development progress -  ERM Sprint 133
  
  

  • Release dates for Lotus put back by two weeks

  • Continue to work on transfer to new framework for software testing – done for Agreements, outstanding for licenses and other apps

  • Continue to improve local KB management - testing to be done on ability to move IDs between titles and ability to correct problems

  • UI may be in morning glory but background work might be in Lotus

  • Owen is investigating an issue with the display of Agreement lines in Kiwi reported by Lars

• Discussion on acceptable delay for data to be in sync across apps 

  • Slides: Cross App Data Sync working group - Background and questions

  • How different apps in FOLIO need to work together if using the same piece of data?

  • Example: Link an Organization to an Agreement or License – data managed by the Organizations app and in Agreements you are seeing the data displayed

  • Challenge in FOLIO – apps keep their own data – sharing the data – how can we keep the data up-to-date?

  • Design is separate buckets or silos of information- advantage: separation between Apps – makes it easier to develop apps and add into FOLIO

  • Disadvantage: challenge - How does Licenses or Agreements be aware of changes in Organizations?

  • Different models how to deal with it - in ERM Apps different strategies depending on the data

  • What are the use cases and the expected behavior?

  • Goal to find an approach that could work for a large majority of those use cases

  • Sara (chat): Is that the case for the ERM App: eHoldings?

    • no eHoldings use cases yet, not yet considered the eHolding in this picture since it is a specific integrations – stronger integrations than the other use cases in ERM / will add use cases  

  • Technical proposal by Raman

  • Which is the app that owns the data?

  • Who owns the description of the link between the Agreements and Organizations?

  • Grouped use cases into categories:

  • a.) Copy of data from other app and that needs to be kept up-to-date

  • Example: in agreements when you link an organizations to an agreement, the organization’s name is stored in the agreements app (a copy) – easier for sorting or searching – changes in the Organizations App should be in Agreements as well

  • b.) Notify use of data in other apps

  • Example: Linking POL to an AGL - the AGL is storing the information, but the POL does not know its use in Agreements

  • c.) Notify on deletion

  • Tell Agreement that this Organization is deleted – do what might be appropriate e.g. to remove the Organization or display “deleted organization”

  • d.) stop the deletion

  • e.) notify on data update

  • Technical proposal by Raman

  • Changes in an app then publish some notification about that change to a generally available list of changes – apps can listen/monitor that list and can read that update and process it.

  • List of changes from apps and other apps are monitoring and picking up the data they need and applying it to the copies of data

  • Questions: Change to a piece of information – how long is it acceptable for it to take to display the changes data in the other app?

  • One answer could be immediate – desired outcome – ideal from user’s perspective, but there are technical aspects  

  • Copy of data - It will take same time that both data is changed, there will be some delay

  • What is tolerable and what is the impact of that delay?

  • Jack (chat):  This makes me think of EZProxy - some actions require a restart of the server which has a built in 5 seconds for your change to go into effect

  • Bob (chat): Can you give an example of the kind of time delay you anticipate with the given solution? Maybe this is a getting circular in questioning?

  • Cannot, we would like to understand your acceptable delay

  • Several steps: How often should I check the queue to see if there are changes? How often should I publish to the queue? How long does it take to apply the changes to the copy?

  • Depends on so many factors

  • Jack: thinking more of patron facing data – ILS changes in discovery layer - What happens with delays? If there is a delay of hours or a day – can be frustrating and need to make notes to finish the workflow

  • Questions: Change of an organization’s name in Organizations app displaying in Agreements and/or Licenses

  • Tolerable timeframe for display in

    • Searching for an organization in the left search & filter pane

    • Organization accordion in Agreements

  • Kristin: not the delay but being unaware of the change, taking an actions because of data not up-to-date, information about payment that could prompt different actions

  • Proposal combines those two things together: knowing there is a change and applying it

  • Sara: Two colleague not knowing about changes which they did / eholdings removes something I have a blank agreement  

  • Owen’s example: internal contact – user is delete – blank entry in Agreements in internal contact with dead link

  • Felix (chat): We also know that we have to wait a couple of minutes until URL localizations in FOLIO's internal KB are applied. You'll see a message banner that informs you after you changed something there.

  • Benjamin (chat): Looking at the use cases I do not think *I* can make sure that I will guarantee to respond in any given timeframe (e.g. if the change happens in the morning). So my proposal would be to go through with the Change and notify me (on the Dashboard) so that I can fix the broken org link with no time pressure?

  • The user should not do anything, but how long would it be that the system had make the change

  • Survey to collect feedback on those questions will be shared via Slack

Chat

Von Lars-Håkan Herbertsson an alle 02:10 PM
that's right
Von Emma Raub an alle 02:10 PM
Yep, we have that too.
Von Sara Colglazier (MHC/5C) an alle 02:17 PM
Is that the case for the ERM App: eHoldings?
Von Owen Stephens an alle 02:17 PM
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1UFzfYtriJSH-jhxOVzJ-ziF8MiRsfroQV-mHdjLu9c8/edit?usp=sharing
Von Sara Colglazier (MHC/5C) an alle 02:21 PM
And more of a *coming* App for most: the Dashboard
Von Jack Mulvaney an alle 02:36 PM
This makes me think of EZProxy - some actions require a restart of the server which has a built in 5 seconds for your change to go into effect
I don't really ever notice if there is a delay in our current ILS or former ERM - I assume that means it wasn't obvious for me as a human but maybe the software had a slight delay
Von Bob Scheier (Holy Cross) an alle 02:39 PM
Can you give an example of the kind of time delay you anticipate with the given solution? Maybe this is a getting circular in questioning?
Ahhhh OK I get it
What happens during the delay if someone else tries to make a change as well?
Locking?
+1Kristin
Von Felix Hemme (ZBW) an alle 02:53 PM
We also know that we have to wait a couple of minutes until URL localizations in FOLIO's internal KB are applied. You'll see a message banner that informs you after you changed something there.
Von Benjamin Ahlborn an alle 02:56 PM
Looking at the use cases I do not think *I* can make sure that I will guarantee to respond in any given timeframe (e.g. if the change happens in the morning). So my proposal would be to go through with the Change and notify me )on the Dashboard) so that I can fix the broken org link with no time pressure?
Von Felix Hemme (ZBW) an alle 02:59 PM
+1 Benjamin in cases where a record is deleted in another app
Owen, but what in a cases like you are showing right now? I would want to know that some records use a deleted user so I can react on it. Displaying it in the dashboard or a report would be helpful.

Attendees list