Agenda Feb 9th 2022

Convener: Martina S.

Notetaker: Martina T.

Housekeeping

All: Please edit the attendees list below and indicate when you are there!
Next ERM meeting: Feb 23rd
all questions and topics for the ERM implementers meeting can be posted on this confluence page: https://folio-org.atlassian.net/wiki/x/SABS
Open discuss posts: right now no new posts regarding erm
PC minutes Jan 27th
PC minutes Feb 3rd

Agenda items

Development progress - ERM Sprint 133
Discussion on acceptable delay for data to be in sync across apps

Minutes

Development progress - ERM Sprint 133
- Release dates for Lotus put back by two weeks
- Continue to work on transfer to new framework for software testing – done for Agreements, outstanding for licenses and other apps
- Continue to improve local KB management - testing to be done on ability to move IDs between titles and ability to correct problems
- UI may be in morning glory but background work might be in Lotus
- Owen is investigating an issue with the display of Agreement lines in Kiwi reported by Lars
Discussion on acceptable delay for data to be in sync across apps
- Slides: Cross App Data Sync working group - Background and questions
- How different apps in FOLIO need to work together if using the same piece of data?
- Example: Link an Organization to an Agreement or License – data managed by the Organizations app and in Agreements you are seeing the data displayed
- Challenge in FOLIO – apps keep their own data – sharing the data – how can we keep the data up-to-date?
- Design is separate buckets or silos of information- advantage: separation between Apps – makes it easier to develop apps and add into FOLIO
- Disadvantage: challenge - How does Licenses or Agreements be aware of changes in Organizations?
- Different models how to deal with it - in ERM Apps different strategies depending on the data
- What are the use cases and the expected behavior?
- Goal to find an approach that could work for a large majority of those use cases
- Sara (chat): Is that the case for the ERM App: eHoldings?
  - no eHoldings use cases yet, not yet considered the eHolding in this picture since it is a specific integrations – stronger integrations than the other use cases in ERM / will add use cases
- Technical proposal by Raman
- Which is the app that owns the data?
- Who owns the description of the link between the Agreements and Organizations?
- Grouped use cases into categories:
- a.) Copy of data from other app and that needs to be kept up-to-date
- Example: in agreements when you link an organizations to an agreement, the organization’s name is stored in the agreements app (a copy) – easier for sorting or searching – changes in the Organizations App should be in Agreements as well
- b.) Notify use of data in other apps
- Example: Linking POL to an AGL - the AGL is storing the information, but the POL does not know its use in Agreements
- c.) Notify on deletion
- Tell Agreement that this Organization is deleted – do what might be appropriate e.g. to remove the Organization or display “deleted organization”
- d.) stop the deletion
- e.) notify on data update
- Technical proposal by Raman
- Changes in an app then publish some notification about that change to a generally available list of changes – apps can listen/monitor that list and can read that update and process it.
- List of changes from apps and other apps are monitoring and picking up the data they need and applying it to the copies of data
- Questions: Change to a piece of information – how long is it acceptable for it to take to display the changes data in the other app?
- One answer could be immediate – desired outcome – ideal from user’s perspective, but there are technical aspects
- Copy of data - It will take same time that both data is changed, there will be some delay
- What is tolerable and what is the impact of that delay?
- Jack (chat): This makes me think of EZProxy - some actions require a restart of the server which has a built in 5 seconds for your change to go into effect
- Bob (chat): Can you give an example of the kind of time delay you anticipate with the given solution? Maybe this is a getting circular in questioning?
- Cannot, we would like to understand your acceptable delay
- Several steps: How often should I check the queue to see if there are changes? How often should I publish to the queue? How long does it take to apply the changes to the copy?
- Depends on so many factors
- Jack: thinking more of patron facing data – ILS changes in discovery layer - What happens with delays? If there is a delay of hours or a day – can be frustrating and need to make notes to finish the workflow
- Questions: Change of an organization’s name in Organizations app displaying in Agreements and/or Licenses
- Tolerable timeframe for display in
  - Searching for an organization in the left search & filter pane
  - Organization accordion in Agreements
- Kristin: not the delay but being unaware of the change, taking an actions because of data not up-to-date, information about payment that could prompt different actions
- Proposal combines those two things together: knowing there is a change and applying it
- Sara: Two colleague not knowing about changes which they did / eholdings removes something I have a blank agreement
- Owen’s example: internal contact – user is delete – blank entry in Agreements in internal contact with dead link
- Felix (chat): We also know that we have to wait a couple of minutes until URL localizations in FOLIO's internal KB are applied. You'll see a message banner that informs you after you changed something there.
- Benjamin (chat): Looking at the use cases I do not think *I* can make sure that I will guarantee to respond in any given timeframe (e.g. if the change happens in the morning). So my proposal would be to go through with the Change and notify me (on the Dashboard) so that I can fix the broken org link with no time pressure?
- The user should not do anything, but how long would it be that the system had make the change
- Survey to collect feedback on those questions will be shared via Slack

Chat

Von Lars-Håkan Herbertsson an alle 02:10 PM
that's right
Von Emma Raub an alle 02:10 PM
Yep, we have that too.
Von Sara Colglazier (MHC/5C) an alle 02:17 PM
Is that the case for the ERM App: eHoldings?
Von Owen Stephens an alle 02:17 PM
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1UFzfYtriJSH-jhxOVzJ-ziF8MiRsfroQV-mHdjLu9c8/edit?usp=sharing
Von Sara Colglazier (MHC/5C) an alle 02:21 PM
And more of a *coming* App for most: the Dashboard
Von Jack Mulvaney an alle 02:36 PM
This makes me think of EZProxy - some actions require a restart of the server which has a built in 5 seconds for your change to go into effect
I don't really ever notice if there is a delay in our current ILS or former ERM - I assume that means it wasn't obvious for me as a human but maybe the software had a slight delay
Von Bob Scheier (Holy Cross) an alle 02:39 PM
Can you give an example of the kind of time delay you anticipate with the given solution? Maybe this is a getting circular in questioning?
Ahhhh OK I get it
What happens during the delay if someone else tries to make a change as well?
Locking?
+1Kristin
Von Felix Hemme (ZBW) an alle 02:53 PM
We also know that we have to wait a couple of minutes until URL localizations in FOLIO's internal KB are applied. You'll see a message banner that informs you after you changed something there.
Von Benjamin Ahlborn an alle 02:56 PM
Looking at the use cases I do not think *I* can make sure that I will guarantee to respond in any given timeframe (e.g. if the change happens in the morning). So my proposal would be to go through with the Change and notify me )on the Dashboard) so that I can fix the broken org link with no time pressure?
Von Felix Hemme (ZBW) an alle 02:59 PM
+1 Benjamin in cases where a record is deleted in another app
Owen, but what in a cases like you are showing right now? I would want to know that some records use a deleted user so I can react on it. Displaying it in the dashboard or a report would be helpful.

Attendees list

Present	Name	Home Organization
	Aaron Neslin	UMass
	Abigail Wickes	Duke University Libraries
	Alaina Deane	Duke
	Alice Daugherty	University of Alabama
	Alissa Hafele	Stanford University
	Alistair Morrison	Johns Hopkins University Libraries
	Amanda Cornwell	Johns Hopkins University Libraries
	Amelia Sutton	UMass
	Andrea Meindl	UB Regensburg
	Ann-Marie Breaux	EBSCO
	Annika Schröer	UB Leipzig
	Annika Zierhut
	Anu Moorthy	Duke
	Anya Arnold	EBSCO
x	Beate Aretz
x	Benjamin Ahlborn	SuUB Bremen
	Birgit Neumann
	Björn Muschall	UB Leipzig
	Carole Godfrey	EBSCO
	Catherine Tuohy	Emmanuel College
	Charlotte Whitt	Index Data
	Claudia Malzer	ULB Darmstadt, Developer
	Dennis Bridges	EBSCO
	Dwayne Swigert	Missouri State University
x	Emma Raub	Cornell
	Eric Hartnett	Texas A&M University
x	Felix Hemme	ZBW Kiel
	Frances Webb	Cornell, Developer
x	Gang Zhou	Shanghai Library
	Gill Osguthorpe	UX/UI Designer - K-Int
	Gisela Weinerth	SUB Hamburg
	Heather MacFarlane
	Heather Thoele	Texas A&M University
	Ian Ibbotson	Developer Lead - K-Int
x	Jack Mulvaney	UMass
	Jag Goraya	K-Int
x	Janet Ewing	Five Colleges / Mount Holyoke College Library
	Jenna Lantermann	Five Colleges / Smith College
	Jenna Strawbridge	Duke
x	Jessica Harris	Chicago
	Jir Shin Boey	Missouri State University
	Joe Sikowitz	Fenway Library Organization
	Johann Rolschewski	ZDB, Berlin
	Johanna Radding	Five Colleges / Amherst College
x	Julie Brannon	Duke
	Kathleen Berry	UMass Amherst
x	Kathleen Norton	Five Colleges / Mount Holyoke College Library
	Katrin Brüggemann	UB Leipzig
	Khalilah Gambrell	EBSCO
	Kirstin Kemner-Heek	VZG, Göttingen
	Kristen Wilson	Index Data
x	Kristin Martin	Chicago
	Kyle Banerjee	EBSCO
x	Lars-Hakan Herbertsson	Chalmers
	Laura Wright	Cornell University
	Laurenz Kern	Stabi Berlin
	Lindsey Lowry	University of Alabama
	Luca Lanzillo	Sapienza Library System - Sapienza University of Rome
	Maike Osters	hbz, Cologne
	Mara Egherman	EBSCO
	Marie Widigson	Chalmers
	Mariyam Thorhira	Johns Hopkins University Libraries
	Marjorie Snyder
	Mark Arnold	Missouri State University
	Mark Deutsch	Duke
	Martin Scholz
x	Martina Karlsson	Chalmers
x	Martina Schildt	VZG, Göttingen
x	Martina Tumulla	hbz, Cologne
	Mary O’Brien
	Matthieu Bordet	DMCultura, Ravenna, Italy
	Mohammad Alhamad	Missouri State University
	Molly Driscoll	EBSCO
	Moritz Horn	VZG, Göttingen
x	Nancy Finn
x	Nancy Pelis	Five Colleges / Mount Holyoke College Library
	Norma Flores	Texas A&M University
	Olga Harder	TIB Hannover
x	Owen Stephens	Product Owner - Owen Stephens Consulting
	Paul Trumble	Amherst
	Peter Böhm	HeBIS, Frankfurt
x	Peter McCracken	Cornell
x	Robert Scheier	College of the Holy Cross
	Rüdiger Stratmann	IAI SPK Berlin
	Sabine Howahl	ULB Darmstadt
x	Sabrina Bayer	UB Regensburg
x	Sara Colglazier	Five Colleges / Mount Holyoke College Library
x	Sarah Dennis	Texas A&M University
	Sarah Morgenstern-Einenkel	UB Leipzig
x	Scott Stangroom	UMass
	Siobhan McManamon	Five Colleges / Smith College
	Sobha Duvvuri	EBSCO
	Stephani Kaceli	Cairn University
	Stew MacLehose	University of New England
x	Susanne Schuster	BSZ Konstanz
x	Tatjana Clemens	UB Frankfurt
	Theodor Tolstoi	Chalmers, EBSCO
	Tracy Patton	Missouri State University
	Virginia Martin	Duke University Libraries
	Xiaoyan (Yan) Song	NCSU
	Yvonne Mönkediek	SuUB Bremen

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