2022-02-09 - ERM meeting

Meeting Time:    8 am EST /  2 pm CET / 1 pm UK

Call in Number:     https://zoom.us/j/995679876 

Meeting URLhttps://zoom.us/j/995679876 Password needed: please see link below

https://folio-org.atlassian.net/wiki/display/COMMUNITY/FOLIO+Meetings+with+Zoom

 

ERM SIG Folio Wiki: https://folio-org.atlassian.net/wiki/display/ERMSIG/

Google Folder: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/17X3tr6siZH8iS07kGcjAqUNl01zVrJmB

Terms and definitions: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vue-mbcULpZivWu69a7nAZEdC-H2yXPQqSblbL_0J6U

Slack Channel: # erm-team


Agenda Feb 9th 2022

Convener: Martina S.

Notetaker: Martina T.

Housekeeping


Agenda items

  1. Development progress -  ERM Sprint 133
  2. Discussion on acceptable delay for data to be in sync across apps 

Minutes

  • Development progress -  ERM Sprint 133
    • Release dates for Lotus put back by two weeks

    • Continue to work on transfer to new framework for software testing – done for Agreements, outstanding for licenses and other apps

    • Continue to improve local KB management - testing to be done on ability to move IDs between titles and ability to correct problems

    • UI may be in morning glory but background work might be in Lotus

    • Owen is investigating an issue with the display of Agreement lines in Kiwi reported by Lars

  • Discussion on acceptable delay for data to be in sync across apps 
    • Slides: Cross App Data Sync working group - Background and questions
    • How different apps in FOLIO need to work together if using the same piece of data?

    • Example: Link an Organization to an Agreement or License – data managed by the Organizations app and in Agreements you are seeing the data displayed

    • Challenge in FOLIO – apps keep their own data – sharing the data – how can we keep the data up-to-date?

    • Design is separate buckets or silos of information- advantage: separation between Apps – makes it easier to develop apps and add into FOLIO

    • Disadvantage: challenge - How does Licenses or Agreements be aware of changes in Organizations?

    • Different models how to deal with it - in ERM Apps different strategies depending on the data

    • What are the use cases and the expected behavior?

    • Goal to find an approach that could work for a large majority of those use cases

    • Sara (chat): Is that the case for the ERM App: eHoldings?

      • no eHoldings use cases yet, not yet considered the eHolding in this picture since it is a specific integrations – stronger integrations than the other use cases in ERM / will add use cases  
    • Technical proposal by Raman

    • Which is the app that owns the data?
    • Who owns the description of the link between the Agreements and Organizations?

    • Grouped use cases into categories:

    • a.) Copy of data from other app and that needs to be kept up-to-date

    • Example: in agreements when you link an organizations to an agreement, the organization’s name is stored in the agreements app (a copy) – easier for sorting or searching – changes in the Organizations App should be in Agreements as well

    • b.) Notify use of data in other apps

    • Example: Linking POL to an AGL - the AGL is storing the information, but the POL does not know its use in Agreements
    • c.) Notify on deletion
    • Tell Agreement that this Organization is deleted – do what might be appropriate e.g. to remove the Organization or display “deleted organization”
    • d.) stop the deletion
    • e.) notify on data update
    • Technical proposal by Raman
    • Changes in an app then publish some notification about that change to a generally available list of changes – apps can listen/monitor that list and can read that update and process it.

    • List of changes from apps and other apps are monitoring and picking up the data they need and applying it to the copies of data

    • Questions: Change to a piece of information – how long is it acceptable for it to take to display the changes data in the other app?

    • One answer could be immediate – desired outcome – ideal from user’s perspective, but there are technical aspects  

    • Copy of data - It will take same time that both data is changed, there will be some delay
    • What is tolerable and what is the impact of that delay?

    • Jack (chat):  This makes me think of EZProxy - some actions require a restart of the server which has a built in 5 seconds for your change to go into effect

    • Bob (chat): Can you give an example of the kind of time delay you anticipate with the given solution? Maybe this is a getting circular in questioning?

    • Cannot, we would like to understand your acceptable delay

    • Several steps: How often should I check the queue to see if there are changes? How often should I publish to the queue? How long does it take to apply the changes to the copy?

    • Depends on so many factors

    • Jack: thinking more of patron facing data – ILS changes in discovery layer - What happens with delays? If there is a delay of hours or a day – can be frustrating and need to make notes to finish the workflow

    • Questions: Change of an organization’s name in Organizations app displaying in Agreements and/or Licenses

    • Tolerable timeframe for display in

      • Searching for an organization in the left search & filter pane
      • Organization accordion in Agreements
    • Kristin: not the delay but being unaware of the change, taking an actions because of data not up-to-date, information about payment that could prompt different actions

    • Proposal combines those two things together: knowing there is a change and applying it

    • Sara: Two colleague not knowing about changes which they did / eholdings removes something I have a blank agreement  
    • Owen’s example: internal contact – user is delete – blank entry in Agreements in internal contact with dead link

    • Felix (chat): We also know that we have to wait a couple of minutes until URL localizations in FOLIO's internal KB are applied. You'll see a message banner that informs you after you changed something there.

    • Benjamin (chat): Looking at the use cases I do not think *I* can make sure that I will guarantee to respond in any given timeframe (e.g. if the change happens in the morning). So my proposal would be to go through with the Change and notify me (on the Dashboard) so that I can fix the broken org link with no time pressure?

    • The user should not do anything, but how long would it be that the system had make the change

    • Survey to collect feedback on those questions will be shared via Slack

Chat

Von Lars-Håkan Herbertsson an alle 02:10 PM
that's right
Von Emma Raub an alle 02:10 PM
Yep, we have that too.
Von Sara Colglazier (MHC/5C) an alle 02:17 PM
Is that the case for the ERM App: eHoldings?
Von Owen Stephens an alle 02:17 PM
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1UFzfYtriJSH-jhxOVzJ-ziF8MiRsfroQV-mHdjLu9c8/edit?usp=sharing
Von Sara Colglazier (MHC/5C) an alle 02:21 PM
And more of a *coming* App for most: the Dashboard
Von Jack Mulvaney an alle 02:36 PM
This makes me think of EZProxy - some actions require a restart of the server which has a built in 5 seconds for your change to go into effect
I don't really ever notice if there is a delay in our current ILS or former ERM - I assume that means it wasn't obvious for me as a human but maybe the software had a slight delay
Von Bob Scheier (Holy Cross) an alle 02:39 PM
Can you give an example of the kind of time delay you anticipate with the given solution? Maybe this is a getting circular in questioning?
Ahhhh OK I get it
What happens during the delay if someone else tries to make a change as well?
Locking?
+1Kristin
Von Felix Hemme (ZBW) an alle 02:53 PM
We also know that we have to wait a couple of minutes until URL localizations in FOLIO's internal KB are applied. You'll see a message banner that informs you after you changed something there.
Von Benjamin Ahlborn an alle 02:56 PM
Looking at the use cases I do not think *I* can make sure that I will guarantee to respond in any given timeframe (e.g. if the change happens in the morning). So my proposal would be to go through with the Change and notify me )on the Dashboard) so that I can fix the broken org link with no time pressure?
Von Felix Hemme (ZBW) an alle 02:59 PM
+1 Benjamin in cases where a record is deleted in another app
Owen, but what in a cases like you are showing right now? I would want to know that some records use a deleted user so I can react on it. Displaying it in the dashboard or a report would be helpful.

Attendees list

Present

Name

Home Organization


Aaron Neslin

UMass


Abigail Wickes

Duke University Libraries


Alaina Deane

Duke


Alice Daugherty

University of Alabama


Alissa HafeleStanford University

Alistair Morrison

Johns Hopkins University Libraries


Amanda Cornwell

Johns Hopkins University Libraries


Amelia Sutton

UMass


Andrea Meindl

UB Regensburg


Ann-Marie Breaux

EBSCO


Annika Schröer

UB Leipzig


Annika Zierhut

Anu Moorthy

Duke


Anya Arnold

EBSCO

x

Beate Aretz


x

Benjamin Ahlborn

SuUB Bremen


Birgit Neumann

Björn Muschall

UB Leipzig


Carole Godfrey

EBSCO


Catherine Tuohy

Emmanuel College 


Charlotte Whitt

Index Data


Claudia Malzer

ULB Darmstadt, Developer


Dennis Bridges

EBSCO


Dwayne Swigert

Missouri State University

x

Emma Raub 

Cornell


Eric Hartnett

Texas A&M University

x

Felix Hemme

ZBW Kiel


Frances Webb

Cornell, Developer

xGang ZhouShanghai Library

Gill Osguthorpe

UX/UI Designer - K-Int


Gisela Weinerth

SUB Hamburg


Heather MacFarlane

Heather Thoele

Texas A&M University


Ian Ibbotson

Developer Lead - K-Int

x

Jack Mulvaney

UMass


Jag Goraya

K-Int

x

Janet Ewing

Five Colleges / Mount Holyoke College Library


Jenna Lantermann

Five Colleges / Smith College 


Jenna Strawbridge

Duke

x

Jessica Harris

Chicago


Jir Shin Boey

Missouri State University


Joe Sikowitz

Fenway Library Organization


Johann Rolschewski

ZDB, Berlin


Johanna RaddingFive Colleges / Amherst College
x

Julie Brannon

Duke


Kathleen Berry

UMass Amherst

x

Kathleen Norton

Five Colleges / Mount Holyoke College Library


Katrin Brüggemann

UB Leipzig


Khalilah Gambrell

EBSCO


Kirstin Kemner-Heek  

VZG, Göttingen


Kristen Wilson

Index Data

x

Kristin Martin

Chicago


Kyle Banerjee

EBSCO
x

Lars-Hakan Herbertsson

Chalmers


Laura Wright

Cornell University


Laurenz KernStabi Berlin

Lindsey Lowry

University of Alabama


Luca Lanzillo

Sapienza Library System - Sapienza University of Rome


Maike Osters

hbz, Cologne


Mara Egherman

EBSCO


Marie Widigson

Chalmers


Mariyam Thorhira

Johns Hopkins University Libraries


Marjorie Snyder



Mark Arnold

Missouri State University


Mark Deutsch

Duke


Martin Scholz
x

Martina Karlsson

Chalmers

x

Martina Schildt

VZG, Göttingen

x

Martina Tumulla

hbz, Cologne


Mary O’Brien



Matthieu Bordet

DMCultura, Ravenna, Italy


Mohammad AlhamadMissouri State University

Molly Driscoll

EBSCO


Moritz Horn

VZG, Göttingen

x

Nancy Finn


x

Nancy Pelis

Five Colleges / Mount Holyoke College Library


Norma Flores

Texas A&M University

Olga Harder

TIB Hannover

x

Owen Stephens

Product Owner -  Owen Stephens Consulting


Paul Trumble

Amherst


Peter Böhm

HeBIS, Frankfurt

x

Peter McCracken

Cornell

xRobert ScheierCollege of the Holy Cross

Rüdiger Stratmann

IAI SPK Berlin

          

Sabine Howahl

ULB Darmstadt

x

Sabrina Bayer

UB Regensburg

x

Sara Colglazier

Five Colleges / Mount Holyoke College Library

x

Sarah Dennis

Texas A&M University


Sarah Morgenstern-Einenkel

UB Leipzig

x

Scott Stangroom

UMass


Siobhan McManamon

Five Colleges / Smith College


Sobha Duvvuri

EBSCO


Stephani KaceliCairn University

Stew MacLehose

University of New England

x

Susanne Schuster

BSZ Konstanz

x

Tatjana Clemens

UB Frankfurt


Theodor Tolstoi

Chalmers, EBSCO


Tracy Patton

Missouri State University


Virginia Martin

Duke University Libraries


Xiaoyan (Yan) Song

NCSU


Yvonne Mönkediek

SuUB Bremen