2022-07-13 Meeting notes: Loan types in locations

Date

13 Jul 2022

Housekeeping

Discussion items

• Loan types in locations

Minutes

• Use case provided by Monica Arnold; has been discussed with the FOLIO implementers
  • We've been live on FOLIO almost 2 years now.
  • We are using loan types as our primary criteria for creating circ rules.
  • I've come up with an idea that would make doing so a little easier.
  • Basically, my idea is that a new field be added to each location that would allow the library to list all acceptable loan types that could be applied to a particular location.
  • When a new item was created, only the loan types listed in location would be allowed to be selected (and if there was only a single acceptable loan type defined, it would become the default loan type for the new item).
  • Details would have to be worked out for if an item was moved to a different location. This would have implications for the new bulk editing app that is being created as well.
• problem: cataloguer can move an item from one location to another; if you forget to change the loan type there will be the wrong set of circ rules
• Mark has written ascript that compares location with expected loan type; if something is wrong, an email is sent to a cataloguer
• this happens quite often
• proposal to solve: add a field to record the default loan type
• if user chooses item location, it would automatically define loan type
• proposal would have implications on Inventory, bulk edit, acquisitions, data import
• Laura in chat: this makes me think about the idea of record templates, which is something we've talked about wanting for a number of reasons
  
• Erin: when talking to implementers, did any other library have the same need? → not really, but some schools are using loan types and they could see this as a good solution
• Lloydin chat: I worked at a library where we integrated reference and circulation collections, so they were integrated into the same physical collection, but had different loan types.
  
• Erin: maybe rewriting the rules would be a solution; 
  • Mark; this would triple it in size
• Cheryl: at Chicago we use loan types; very few exceptions for locations; makes sense to us; not opposed to the idea to have a default set of loan types
• Jana in chat: We have a similar loantype per locations situation in our old system as a default but have the loan rules overwrite this loan type if we choose to. We have not yet tried this in FOLIO but if this is a feature that could be switched on and off this shouldn't be a problem, right?
  
• Brooks can see utility in this not just for loan types (e.g. material types)
• you can have multiple service points tied to a locations
• Mark: questions why loan type is a required field; 
• Owen: deciding to extend location seems problematic; there could be more needs for extensions in other institutions
  • Mark has a suggestion that would solve a problem that Mark's institution has; Owen would prefer having a set of requirements that the product/project can then solve
• then discuss through RA
• Marc in chat: An example of the concern that Owen raised is how service points are related to locations. And one of the side effects of that is how service points are part of inventory (and thus is required by the system for logging in, because folks work from a service point)
  
• Mark would like to know whether other institutions have the same or a similar need; they have a solution for themselves
• Brooks in chat: proposed/existing solutions would be at the expense of simplicity in the circ rules
• Erin in chat: OK, but adding a third criteria is not adding another rule
• Brooks in chat: I meant in the particular definitions
• Brooks in chat: I'd say it needs to be in both MM and RA, given the implications.
• Erin: we could create a feature and then it would sit in JIRA if no 
• Maura in chat: +1 Erin
• Jana in chat: I can absolutely schedule a meeting for this in RA.
• Owen: RA seems like the place to start, as the topic seems not yet a cross-app topic; if yes, then go to MM
• Laura in chat: Makes sense to me to start with RA and then, if there is interest there in making changes, bring it to MM. (what Owen just said)
• Brooks agrees in chat: yeah
• Owen in chat: Having some validation on when loan statuses can be applied to items makes absolute sense to me
• Next step: Jana Freytag  will schedule a meeting in RA

Chat

18:01:02 Von  Martina Schildt | VZG  an  Alle:
    Agenda for today: 2022-07-13 Meeting notes: Loan types in locations
18:11:16 Von  Erin Nettifee  an  Alle:
    Orders
18:11:31 Von  Laura Daniels  an  Alle:
    this makes me think about the idea of record templates, which is something we've talked about wanting for a number of reasons
18:13:21 Von  Lloyd Chittenden  an  Alle:
    I worked at a library where we integrated reference and circulation collections, so they were integrated into the same physical collection, but had different loan types.
18:14:33 Von  Laura Daniels  an  Alle:
    it doesn't sound critical, Erin -- we sometimes want our tools to think for us when we need to think for ourselves
18:16:44 Von  Jana Freytag | VZG  an  Alle:
    We have a similar loantype per locations situation in our old system as a default but have the loan rules overwrite this loan type if we choose to.     We have not yet tried this in FOLIO but if this is a feature that could be switched on and off this shouldn't be a problem, right?
18:17:32 Von  Martina Schildt | VZG  an  Alle:
    I see you Brooks
18:20:24 Von  Martina Schildt | VZG  an  Alle:
    I see you Owen
18:23:36 Von  Maura Byrne  an  Alle:
    +1 Owen
18:24:47 Von  Marc Johnson  an  Alle:
    An example of the concern that Owen raised is how service points are related to locations.
    
    And one of the side effects of that is how service points are part of inventory (and thus is required by the system for logging in, because folks work from a service point)
18:27:21 Von  Brooks Travis  an  Alle:
    At the expense of simplicity in the circ rules
18:27:47 Von  Erin Nettifee  an  Alle:
    OK, but adding a third criterium is not adding another rule
18:27:52 Von  Erin Nettifee  an  Alle:
    *criteria
18:28:41 Von  Brooks Travis  an  Alle:
    I meant in the particular definitions
18:30:14 Von  Brooks Travis  an  Alle:
    I'd say it needs to be in both MM and RA, given the implications.
18:32:03 Von  Maura Byrne  an  Alle:
    +1 Erin
18:32:12 Von  Jana Freytag | VZG  an  Alle:
    I can absolutely schedule a meeting for this in RA.
18:34:14 Von  Laura Daniels  an  Alle:
    Makes sense to me to start with RA and then, if there is interest there in making changes, bring it to MM.
18:34:21 Von  Laura Daniels  an  Alle:
    (what Owen just said)
18:34:28 Von  Brooks Travis  an  Alle:
    yeah
18:38:10 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    Having some validation on when loan statuses can be applied to items makes absolute sense to me
18:38:46 Von  Laura Daniels  an  Alle:
    Flamethrower is the best release!
18:39:06 Von  Thomas Trutt  an  Alle:
    commenting in the rules helps a ton..
18:39:14 Von  Thomas Trutt  an  Alle:
    half our rules are comments.
18:39:46 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    I remember Aleph circ rule definitions being horrendously complicated even in a relatively small institution
18:39:50 Von  Brooks Travis  an  Alle:
    Readability of the rules themselves also suffers the longer criteria are…
18:40:04 Von  Erin Nettifee  an  Alle:
    Right, but we should try to make the editor better IMO
18:40:20 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    Editing those tables in Aleph was my introduction to vi!
18:40:29 Von  Thomas Trutt  an  Alle:
    true.. im a huge fan of nesting.. people find that easy to understand.
18:40:40 Von  Erin Nettifee  an  Alle:
    Duke runs Aleph ! :D
18:40:46 Von  Owen Stephens  an  Alle:
    I know 🙂

Attendees

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