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Sara Colglazier 8:09 AM I have always found it very confusing that a PO is Pending but an Invoice is Open while they are being created.
What would be the difference between a Pending Invoice and an Open on? I feel like I am missing something.
Invoices had no impact on funds until approved - in other systems as soon as you create invoice it has impact on funds
Would have awaiting payment value tracking approved and open invoices
~:13 - Sara Colglazier - Pending and open of invoices would more closely align with orders
Scott Perry (UChicago) 8:13 AM Could it show as a different status than awaiting payment to distinguish these from already approved invoices? We don’t encumber ongoing orders, so all of our ongoing order invoices are paid without encumbrances.
You could have invoices without orders
Kimberly Pamplin 8:17 AM Having to unopen orders has caused us a lot of problems, fully editable on invoices would be great.
Scott Perry (UChicago) 8:17 AM You can alter the exchange rate on approved invoices.
~:18 - If you EDI in an invoice would it be EDI’d in as pending?
Owen Stephens 8:19 AM As Martin mentions in the document, being able to unopen and edit an invoice is implementers topic #153 on the Acq SIG implementers topic page
May have invoices rejected for not enough money in fund
Dung-Lan Chen 8:21 AM We haven’t been able to discuss Implementers Topic # 153 in more details without the original person who submitted the topic to join one of our meetings. Work in progress,
Owen - Might be useful if Martin or Christina could talk about why in OA the need to edit the invoices happens more. When that occurs. May be more common for OA transactions.
Two parts that could have different solutions:
At the moment the only way of seeing the transaction occur is to have the invoice get into a state where the transaction happens. Unlike with an order where you see commitment, not possible for OA right now so only can create an invoice transactions
Modify invoices created
For e.g. create encumbrance without orders
Could split into multiple requirements
~:24 copayments (library budgets and author contributions) - library pays invoice in full and then claim certain amounts from author budgets
Problem is that those amounts are not 100% sure, exchange rates might differ - have to change amounts in invoice lines after approval
Cannot change amounts in invoice lines, only exchange rates
Would have a charge in the OA application - currently would immediately create the invoice. Also having people approve invoice so it has impact on budget. Takes forever for accounting to process
Need to get information to accounts payable - can take so long the amounts will change
Joe Reimers (EBSCO) 8:28 AM My main consideration is that anything financial transaction related needs to adhere to accounting best practices (meaning audit trails and clearly defined transactions for any changes.)
That's why we get funny about editing invoices in an approved or paid status, because that creates accounting vulnerabilities.
Somehow associating OA with a PO/POL I think would help resolve a lot of this.
Owen Stephens 8:30 AM There is no order though. Why not allow a transaction from things other than orders?
Joe Reimers (EBSCO) 8:31 AM We'd still have to create some sort of audit/approval mechanism
Owen Stephens 8:31 AM But I think we’d still see an issue with invoices that had been approved but needed adjusting
Joe Reimers (EBSCO) 8:32 AM A number of institutions have strict prohibitions on editing approved invoices because that introduces the possibility of fraud or other legal problems.
Owen Stephens 8:32 AM I understand that - that’s why I’m trying to get Martin and Christina explain a bit more why this arises- because I think there needs to be a solution
Joe Reimers (EBSCO) 8:32 AM (Other than updating exchange rates, which is a unique case)
Owen Stephens 8:33 AM As it stands the invoice ends up being a non-accurate record
Which isn’t great!
:28 - A few years ago considered having charges encumbrance themselves
Even with Open invoice, problem is that there would be pending payments, but no voucher and nothing to send to accounts payable
Encumbrance transaction - budgeting tool - what the library is planning to spend
Pending payments are commitments
Adhere to accounting rules and best practices, make sure it complies with institutions that have strict accounting rules.
Guiding principle - invoice in an approved state has been looked at by someone that said this money can be expended.
Possibility of someone slipping funds in there that haven’t been accounted, allegations of fraud, etc.
Ann Crowley 8:34 AM +1 Joe - there could be audit concerns
Solution must account for legal and gap requirements
If you allow edit of approved things, then would have to get very clever about who can edit which invoice.
Would be difficult to say if Joe approved invoice A only Joe can edit invoice A, may also be concern around this.
~:36 - Least disruptive way to do this would probably be unapprove invoice, edit, approve again. Still seems problematic because once something is approved that information is going to AP. When you unapprove, you’d be changing the details of that transaction.
Dung-Lan: OA invoices - create voucher and transmit to AP to process payment. If you transmit invoices other ways can wait until settled and then approve.
If not approved right now, don’t have any transactions in finance part of FOLIO
Practical and conceptual reasons to not create orders. Don’t actually order in open access processing.
:41 - Ann Crowley - When you unopen an invoice that you’ve already approved. Approve and pay and everything paid today would be fed at 6 o’clock. If unopened how does that credit happen in the university system. Unopening on your side. Approved again, would create another invoice again to that vendor? Or just pay the difference? Huge concerns. From an audit standpoint could be double-paying invoices - maybe not the same amount.
Joe Reimers (EBSCO) 8:42 AM A big part of me feels like this could be better resolved via creative exploration of encumbrances rather than invoices
Even just edit approved. (Or unapprove.) Have potentially sent information to another system and then changed it.
How is it possible that the line amounts change?
Invoice in foreign currency. Get invoice. Have fixed funding limits from library side. 2500 euros. Fix amount at time of invoice. Reclaim the rest from author, which is calculated at point when invoice comes. Invoice sent to accounting. They pay whole amount (start payment process). Takes 4-6 weeks. End with completely different exchange rate and amount changes then. Have to change the copayments so they meet the actual transactions.
John Banionis 8:44 AM We have a blanket ongoing PO for our OA invoices and just apply multiple invoices to it. And you can uncheck the release encumbrance tickbox to just slowly debit the OA encumbrance against multiple invoices
Sara Colglazier 8:45 AM This all sounds like: Supplemental Invoices/Credits due to Rate Adjustments. We get these all the time from EBSCO, for example. Why not just handle them as Adjustments in Invoices and reference the original Invoice and what the OA reference is.
:46 Owen - With OA payments there is often specifically provided funding which limits how much can be spent from library funds. Amount is $10,000. Library has limit of $2,000. Pays $2,000. If in foreign currency - paying what $2,000 would be when the exchange rate is enacted. Rest of the amount would be paid by author via research funds etc.
Scott Perry (UChicago) 8:46 AM So the amount in system currency needs to be locked for one (some?) invoice lines, but adjusted for the other lines?
Committing base currency dollars. Invoice will be written in foreign currency. Values of it will change.
If it goes over a certain amount. Will pay the top amount you can pay in base currency. Not a fixed amount in foreign currency. Not just that the exchange rate has changed.
Would need to treat base currency as the benchmark.
Practiced in Germany everywhere for most institutions.
Created in foreign currency - translates to base currency. Doesn’t change the totals, changes how much that translates to in your system. Opposite of what is wanted in this situation. Would have preferred vendor to invoice you in base currency, because you can only commit 2,000 euros.
Maybe could approach this problem in a different way.
Reversing that effect?
:53 - Not a change on overall invoice, it’s the change on copayments. One part library/one part author.
On invoice, how do you represent this currently? Such that it needs to change?
At the moment don’t use invoicing. Just use open access app and document charges.
Not using invoices because of this problem.
Thinking about using it from this year on and just leave invoices open. Circumvent reporting issue by aggregating invoice data manually
Owen Stephens 8:56 AM The charges have a payment split - which I’d imagine could be converted into a budget split instead if we had encumrances
Think it would make sense to create encumbrance transactions for these charges because it will fluctuate so much.
Christina Prell 8:58 AM We get invoice for e.g. 2050 USD. Then we add the Information to FOLIO and Hand the invoice over to Administration for payment. They pay 4-6 weeks later in Euros, so we get to know the Exchange rate only later. They also add 19% tax. We then ask the author for the sum that was transferred (2050 USD in Euros on that exact date plus 19% tax) minus our funds of 2000 Euros. So authors have to pay the rest.
So the infomation first added to FOLIO is incorrect!