17:01:32 so she's like Well, maybe I had some antibodies in me still.
17:01:38 And okay, yeah, July. Is not that that far away? Yeah.
17:01:42 Not that long ago, I mean, Yeah, no, I hi everyone
17:01:58 Hello!
17:02:11 Any more wolf can covid to victims.
17:02:12 Here, Johnny how are you i'm actually fine i'm surprised.
17:02:19 I know, like Monday? My! was it already Sunday evening?
17:02:23 I know like the first things coming in and then the po's it feels like it's gone through all of them, and it's like Gosh!
17:02:31 That's a lot of people I spent a lot of time negative.
17:02:38 So. I just have omega on in may so i'd like to think that it helped me up now.
17:02:47 But the truth is, I have no clue and i'm just thankful that I feel okay.
17:02:54 And having yeah, so good.
17:03:05 So welcome everyone. Not a lot of interest for open discussion, is it?
17:03:16 No
17:03:22 I thought we could talk a bit about Wolfcon today, So it was the turned out.
17:03:31 It was a covid super spider event. But apart from that, oh, no!
17:03:40 How many, like a lot of people are sick and I don't know.
17:03:46 I just heard bits and pieces I got really sick and when I was talking to some others, i'd heard of 7 positive cases, but I think there were a lot more than 7 i'm just now feeling okay, enough to come to
17:04:02 work I have a mask. if i'm not in my office.
17:04:05 But I I got hit pretty hard and was out all last week I'm so sorry, Bog Wolf con and Germany was amazing, and I don't regret going it's really fantastic.
17:04:26 I know, I I I really don't want to say like it was because I really don't want anybody to be pulling, and I hope no really has any i'm personally, very glad I was able to attend.
17:04:41 And pass in, and I am i'm very thankful to people who are organized.
17:04:45 It's. I think that was little that could be better whoever it starts to host it next year is some has some big boots to fill.
17:04:56 Yeah, i'm, a she's been asked but it's just it took them 3 years to organize that and I'm.
17:05:03 Oh, my gosh! It's just too much like with just going live, and everything for us, and East lansing's great.
17:05:10 But it's not hamburg journey like it's like I don't know.
17:05:13 There's not really a lot of exciting stuff to do outside of our campus, so I I feel like a lot of people would get here and say, Oh, my gosh!
17:05:23 Your campus is gorgeous and then that's it like like we don't have an awesome boat right to offer or anything like that.
17:05:29 The first one was here. in Durham which I'm guessing is not much more exciting than East Lansing. so it's not a competition So yeah I think Durham's a is a cool.
17:05:41 Place it is, I don't know How many people you all could support in terms of like hotels.
17:05:44 And whatnot. But And yeah, this stuff to do there right and go to a bowls game.
17:05:50 Good restaurant depends on the time of year, and with 3 major universities that all have graduation at the same time.
17:05:57 Every year. there's plenty of hotel rooms in town.
17:06:09 Yeah, that's one thing we have a scale set for to do it.
17:06:18 I wanna go to California. There, you go I don't know I have to say that the technology worked really well, I did not have
17:06:26 Whoever was, whether it was the law school or the we've come folks, I didn't have a problem connecting to anything.
17:06:34 I didn't have a problem. Hearing anybody I was really impressed with that, aside from the 3 am which is what was happening in my time.
17:06:44 So, which is actually the problem with Stanford, because those port people were starting at midnight.
17:06:54 So I don't know how anybody Europe logs in if it's held in California.
17:07:01 I mean that's gonna be that's I so I guess first to the topic of the technology.
17:07:07 It was definitely the law school. They had it there was one room. where unfortunately, the mic was like an old, old fashioned spider, and because people didn't want to huddle around it.
17:07:17 Then the the sound wasn't very good for people on the zoom, but otherwise the mics were somewhere in the room, and it felt like magic being able to talk normally and still be heard.
17:07:28 It was amazing. that was definitely the little school and and picking that location.
17:07:34 But what I also enjoyed was how I i'll phase it differently.
17:07:39 I hope it becomes more established now that these conferences are virtual.
17:07:45 I understand the arguments of saying well if it's virtual then maybe it doesn't encourage people to go but I think there are enough reasons, you know, valuable arguable reasons why people can't attend in person
17:08:00 and I like the trying to be inclusive at least even though Yes, you're right with the time, Zones.
17:08:06 It's difficult I think we'll always have that because even if we did it fully virtually, you have to pick up you have to pick a time zone, and it's never gonna work for the full globe anyway.
17:08:18 the fact that the recordings are available very shortly afterwards i'm really glad that has taken place.
17:08:25 So but for what it's worth even if it isn't in California like I I hope that the I hope that this standard is now that such such conferences are hybrid.
17:08:38 Yes, I think we all agree. Sorry I really really loved it.
17:08:44 To be there, and to meet some of you, one person, Aaron and Julie, and Christine and Sharon, and Molly Trisco, and many, many more.
17:08:56 And it was Yeah. and I want to go next year breathing back. Yeah, I was.
17:09:03 I was supposed to be able coming in person and I fell ill and couldn't oh, so grateful for the virtual availability.
17:09:14 So i'm a 100% with julie on that one
17:09:22 I did people feel like I personally didn't attend always office it differently.
17:09:28 I I attended most sessions around the project as a whole cause I'm.
17:09:32 Not a librarian or an it person. but
17:09:37 Did any of you guys attend either the more technical or the more like librarian topics and have comments or main themes.
17:09:46 That's emerge that are also relevant for us in in resource, access.
17:09:56 Kind of attended a little of everything. I was trying not to just focus in one area.
17:10:03 Msu is looking at view. fine so I was going to some of those sessions to learn more about that.
17:10:09 But we're currently using ed so I was I went to Esco's presentation on that and
17:10:17 So yeah, I was kinda just trying to do a lot of different things and not stick to to one thing.
17:10:23 And honestly. Every type, every session I attended was great.
17:10:27 It was fantastic. I learned a lot. I was glad to be participating in.
17:10:32 Yeah, and it was fun. Christine and I presented it a session, and that was fun.
17:10:38 Just kind of showing a day in the life of our our unit, and what we do at work.
17:10:44 So that was good. Yes, very good session.
17:10:49 Erin. Thank you. Thanks. There is a recording. Yeah. So I have to watch that I There was much more to attend, and not stable, too.
17:11:07 Whereas. Yeahthat's what was exciting to me too. Is that like, even if I couldn't attend something it was recorded, and I can now go back and watch it you know you don't you don't have to miss out on
17:11:18 anything and nice thinking back at the beginning when it was like, Oh, my God, we need to find good topics because we don't have enough topics, and and people won't be interested in now.
17:11:30 I felt like selfishly, because I couldn't attend them at all.
17:11:34 There were too many good topics. even with our session.
17:11:37 I felt like it went too fast. And there were a lot of questions afterward, and I we could have went on and on with with just doubling what we were doing.
17:11:47 Yeah, I think that that if i had a negative and i'm digging for one is is that I think some sessions weren't given enough time and other sessions may have been given too much time and that needs to
17:12:01 be. it's difficult to complicate a schedule because you have a slot, and everybody wants to be able to move.
17:12:09 But I think that it wasn't harmful to leave a little early.
17:12:16 It's like Oh, look, I have 15 min back in my day. I think that this the whole day Friday schedule, was a lot.
17:12:25 I mean it just I don't know it part of me is looking back, and it was like what was that when I was coming down with Covid, because I was completely exhausted on Friday like so drain, and I was
17:12:34 like. Is it just because i've been here all week or whatever? but to have our racesig meeting at 4 30 on Friday?
17:12:41 I was just like I can't do this so piano was in there, and I was just like kid.
17:12:47 Are we doing this? Are we really doing this right now? So thank you to everyone for just calling and quits on Friday, and not having our meeting
17:12:59 So when we are going to discuss those topics, Julie, do you?
17:13:08 Which which topics I didn't similar reasons originally. I wanted to it, said the portally one, and I didn't realize it went all the way to 5 instead of 4 30 but then it was cancelled
17:13:20 and then, like it felt like the adrenaline involved and i'm like i'm sorry you don't think i'm gonna skip it.
17:13:28 Yeah, yeah, you had suggested the topics for this like
17:13:38 Even more honest and transparent than I try and be Generally this came more out of that was common .
17:13:47 Earlier on in the planning it's like well in the past Po's were very involved in finding working group topics hint hits hints.
17:13:56 So I was like, Okay, then, if if we really have nothing else to talk about, then then here are things that may be like can be a bit more beyond our usual bread and butter.
17:14:09 Essentially I personally, me don't feel the need to necessarily discuss them.
17:14:14 In the sense of you know if it's if It's if the aim is to fill up the backlog.
17:14:20 That's okay. there's enough backlog it does it mutable filling.
17:14:24 Certainly, though I did. I think it was with, you know even talks about that.
17:14:27 Briefly, generally finding time to thanks in the really longer time.
17:14:36 Just because to get a bit of a different perspective on things and if we're not focusing in a and i'm sounding more judgmental than I mean.
17:14:46 But the to try and avoid focusing really on on fixing problems of the past, so to speak, more and try concentrate on topics of the future.
17:14:55 I think it's important to find time to do that but admittedly I i'm not a 100% sure how to best do that.
17:15:04 And i'm also i'm not a practition I I assumed like the topics I came up with where I was hoping broad enough.
17:15:11 We'd find something to talk about but I I wouldn't really know how to need such a decision.
17:15:16 But we could certainly find time. People want to talk about it.
17:15:21 People have ideas, and i'm sure we can find time at some point to do, to talk about them.
17:15:28 Okay, so if you feel the need to discuss the future of Petron notices new forms of communication and the like.
17:15:40 Place contact, Diana, or me or yeah it's not urgent.
17:15:44 Hi, Molly, how are you i'm doing wonderful how are you i'm! good, too.
17:15:54 So you didn't catch covid I did eventually get but it's been very mild luckily so much better than the last time I had it.
17:16:08 Oh, little little blessings! right
17:16:17 So Dick was the negative of life definitely, definitely.
17:16:27 Yeah, I was almost expecting it, you know, flying internationally being in close proximity with a bunch of people over time.
17:16:36 So I I was still disappointed, but I I really wasn't surprised.
17:16:42 You know, on on all my flights every time I heard someone cough and sneeze.
17:16:47 I was like It's happening. I I hope that everybody is feeling better, though.
17:16:55 Yeah, I hope so. Yeah, we would. We were just talking about some sessions.
17:17:06 I joined the the for you, and Discovery Session and the Cross App workflow session, and those were really too short.
17:17:13 It feels like they We just started to get to the point when it was over
17:17:25 Oh, sorry I I attended the Ui Review, which I thought was a really good discussion.
17:17:33 It was led by Kalila remotely.
17:17:35 Emphasized by Beth German on site, and it can kind of started on the premise that folio is too clicky, and then pushed further into what?
17:17:47 What exactly does that mean, and what are some workflows? that?
17:17:51 Have that we've identified, as being too clicky and so some things that came up, especially where you know, doing a barcode search on something. and then, you know, even though you're searching it a unique item bar code rather than an item
17:18:07 record coming up instead. You're just getting to the instance then having to expand the holdings and find that item.
17:18:14 So that was kind of a predominant thing. But then
17:18:18 We talked about, you know, areas of inconsistent design.
17:18:23 And so definitely, I think it's been talking to people in that session and out of that session.
17:18:32 I had kind of fallen into my the complacency, I had as a library, and when I worked with other systems where i'm like, Okay, Well, I just you know it's it's not great how this. works.
17:18:43 But you know it does work. I guess and you know folio Youx is kind of just as important right now, because we're building this system from the ground up.
17:18:55 And if something's not working the way, we want it to or it's not working optimally that's just as important as raising when there's a bug an actual bug and so I think that that was kind of an
17:19:06 overarching theme of wolf Con. you know not just I identifying the features that we need to you know, develop, or the bugs that we need to fix, but also identifying.
17:19:18 You know. How can we make folio a system that people want to use that?
17:19:22 That's that's even more intuitive and moving in that direction.
17:19:30 Yeah, great point. I have to watch this recording and what it's worth.
17:19:42 I think this is the same. so a good place where these can be talked through and like, really like click by click, or step by step, like, if I do this, what do I expect to see?
17:19:52 How would it appear, and and these kind of things yeah that's what I would want for next time, like more small groups and going through things.
17:20:04 And so I i what to like more times for the show entails 2, because so it was too little time to go around and talk to everyone, and just to echo that I i'd like to see more show and tell and they
17:20:22 scheduled all the show and tells at the same time like. They were like one o'clock to 2 or whatever the time.
17:20:28 Don't tell from all these people and it's like wait a minute.
17:20:30 Maybe I wanna see what they're doing. over there and I know it was all recorded, which is great.
17:20:35 But yeah, I think sprinkled throughout the days would be good.
17:20:42 Yeah, no, they were the most of them were not recorded so I'm.
17:20:44 I'm really glad to 1 one from from tamil was recorded because they showed some really good stuff
17:20:56 Yeah.
17:21:05 So for those those who attended virtually. if any more comments, I would work for you
17:21:20 Well, even who presented Tom. you you you presented, and that was a great job.
17:21:26 I watched you recording today. I think it worked out really well.
17:21:32 Nice thing is the system for me. But other than that, yeah, I think it worked out fairly well.
17:21:41 I was worried that I was gonna have connection issues but I didn't have any whatsoever.
17:21:48 I think we're, all kind of used to zoom now? Hi! more meetings in zoom than I do in person, and and that's a good point just as a comments.
17:22:01 What about like the the meeting up in person it's funny I'm actually glad that's you know I've been working or interacting more or less regularly with most people who were there for the past year and a half
17:22:12 or so before hand, because then it meant that the meeting in person like I'm.
17:22:17 Not saying we could stick the pleasantries such but it's more like it.
17:22:22 It. it went into like the closeness so much faster than I think had we had.
17:22:27 We met as or like. Oh, this is the first time we're meeting let's break the ice.
17:22:33 And that was really pleasant. so I think it goes to show as well like
17:22:37 It's it. it should always be a mix of both right. There are pros and cons to a meeting just in person, a meeting just virtually, actually being, as we can see here, being mainly more inclusive for people all across the
17:22:48 globe. but I think it's always a good it's a good foundation.
17:22:52 But then, when we do meet some in passing, yeah, fully agree.
17:22:57 Yeah, So i'm usually a shy person but it's so easy walking up to someone.
17:23:01 Say, Hey, We know each hour from zoom
17:23:07 I felt like it completely i'm i'm i'm fine I'm not really an extrovert person, especially for people I don't know.
17:23:15 I even started it's like cause I watched the recording of the cancels.
17:23:18 I actually but you know they not know me, and it was like such a weird moment.
17:23:24 So. But yeah, it it. It went so much easier because we already kind of knew each other from from Zoom beforehand.
17:23:30 And then person is a little bit nicer because if at the end of a session. If you want to chat with somebody, you can have that chat in the hallway on the way next to one where virtual it's a little bit
17:23:40 harder to do that. you can use slack, I guess.
17:23:45 Yeah. but we had a really great outdoor place there.
17:23:54 Yeah, a lot of green and some tables and benches. and that was in yeah, not too many tables, because you could always join someone for lunch and break. Yeah.
17:24:09 And perfect weather. Yes, especially open library foundation channel on Youtube and I don't see them on the open library foundation dot org recordings.
17:24:28 Sorry they're not there admittedly I think they were trying to figure out how to get them there.
17:24:36 But someone has put a Google Docs together. I know like we will realize it's not ideal.
17:24:46 But in the meantime, that's where they are that's where they are.
17:24:52 Wonderful. Thank you.
17:25:03 Yeah, they are
17:25:09 Yeah, ,
17:25:17 I don't want to stop the wolf on topic right we keep on, but if once we're done, there are a few updates and bits that I can also share.
17:25:25 Oh, wonderful! it's came more like today, essentially but you know okay, Bye Brooks.
17:25:35 No alright again. So any other comments on Wolf.
17:25:43 Come.
17:25:50 So it was just so wonderful to see you there. And yeah, my hope to see many more of you next year
17:26:14 So
17:26:19 Okay, So Julie and 2 little update small fy eyes.
17:26:24 At this stage. the first one is and I posted it in the resource access channel.
17:26:28 A few updates around Oh, and i'm just updating my notes here, because the the little pun that I was trying to do.
17:26:37 I have forgotten a few updates around loan history.
17:26:40 The setting in in the in the circulation, in settings.
17:26:49 So first first thing to know is that the name and no longer will be updated.
17:26:55 It's already visible, in chat not in snapshot it's no longer called loan history. it's all loan anonymization, which I think is probably a good thing because it's a bit more obvious when
17:27:06 it's about I would say, a downside of this but parallel to this, I taken on what's felt more like just just a bit of ownership, and fixing a couple of bucks on some permissions where some in
17:27:22 very detailed permissions for speculation. there was a one of those hidden permissions that were missing that then threw it through an error message.
17:27:33 So I was going through and fixing all of this, and one thing that came up was that we had one.
17:27:41 We had one permission that was just for loan history which was View loan history, because if you could still see the edit button or the save buttons that we should remove that so that we have one permission that's
17:27:57 just to view the loan history, and then one permission that's to edit loan history.
17:28:04 Then what I realized testing this is that it's no longer called loan history.
17:28:07 It's called loan and optimization. but changing names of permissions is like it has consequences.
17:28:18 Not just from the technical side, but also from the communication side.
17:28:21 And these kind of things. So it was more a heads up the links to the release notes of there.
17:28:27 It's more that know that the setting is called loan anonymization.
17:28:29 Now, but the permissions are still called loan history.
17:28:33 I would ideally like to have them. updated but it comes again with like pros and cons, as is it worth doing that work or not versus communicating about it when I I don't know how often these permissions are used
17:28:49 or not. so think about it. Maybe those of you who may be granting permissions.
17:28:57 If this is things where you feel like this is so completely confusing, that I cannot live with this, for we grant those permissions so rarely, or they belong in position sets in any way that it's we can live with just knowing that
17:29:11 loan history, and the permission name refers to loan and almost anonymization.
17:29:16 Cause I think that was the first point and the second point.
17:29:22 I've only just seen it on some private chat but I think it's coming.
17:29:26 It will be coming your way pretty soon. it's about adding columns to the request table.
17:29:34 That was some chat like it started off from what I saw is like adding, the service points into the column, and then Khalila, who, I think, is has been taking on some of these more Ui topics has noticed There
17:29:49 are several requests to add extra colors. and then the table is gonna get a bit big.
17:29:55 I'm not sure how that works with the ui so coming soon to you.
17:30:00 They'll probably be I don't know in the form of a survey or a request to like what do you actually need in the table?
17:30:09 And what order should it be? Is it like how we should deal with these?
17:30:17 With this fact that a lot of staff, I think, want a lot of information.
17:30:20 But how do we square that with having it in a in a browser table?
17:30:27 I've literally just seen this right now. but it's a head that's probably coming your way.
17:30:32 Feel free to stop thinking about it's questioning around and We'll post it in the resource access channel as soon as it's ready for you guys to meet You I think that's it the phone was it
17:30:48 any questions, any comments.
17:30:55 Is this some stuff people have been waiting for like adding new columns to the requests?
17:31:00 Or is it? I don't know that's a good question yeah, we We've actually had a nigerian for a little while, as part of holly survey of the different units and we had a lot of our
17:31:16 units request that the owning library or the current location via column in there, so that they can scan over open requests and see if there might be something in their stacks to pull.
17:31:28 So that I have seen a few other ones in there too, going just through ours.
17:31:31 It's usually like the owning library where it's going that sort of thing.
17:31:39 No, that's great. Yeah. call number was something that people wanted to to have added, Yeah.
17:31:46 Is is that included well so I I don't know I mean here. I've just got the do what I've got here is at the pickup service, points.
17:31:54 And then there's just to come to you i'm going concerned about the number of columns to display.
17:32:00 There's another one here to add item call so there's a there's a ux broad there's a feature for that, too.
17:32:07 Okay, so we'll see what happens. what comes away But yeah, it sounds good.
17:32:15 Pretty good. Yeah, I I think it's something we could definitely discuss, and I mean, even if all the columns aren't displayed by default, a name, If the option is there that people can turn on that and off I always find
17:32:25 that as a good middle ground, it gives people flexibility and i've also just noticed.
17:32:31 Now. I thought that was the case, but there is the option the most for most of the columns to turn them on enough already in the actions in the in the request table.
17:32:43 I but I realize it's it's not just about the fact that the option is there is that it should still work.
17:32:51 If all columns. are selected and I don't know if the concerns coming, it's like how I denied phrase this properly.
17:32:59 But how reasonable is it to ex expect that it works when we have, you know I don't know 15 columns in there, and what would be the behavior if you have a tiny tiny screen, or you have super long contents?
17:33:15 I don't know, and I think these are the things that we need to be thoughts through.
17:33:20 Yeah.
17:33:26 So similar to the discussion. We had with the inventory ui rework, especially with like items.
17:33:31 There's so many different item pieces in that table a lot of people didn't like scrolling from right to left.
17:33:35 It wanted it more vertically aligned. But then you have literally like chunk after chunk after chunk and thing.
17:34:00 Yeah. So thank you.
17:34:02 Yeah. So thank you, Julie. I have something I would want to discuss.
17:34:07 But maybe we could about the need of a hold notice sent to the borrower.
17:34:15 We had that on slack some time ago. but maybe we could schedule it for next time, for people could see it on the agenda and join if they're interested in a topic
17:34:32 No.
17:34:40 Any more questions or concerns for today
17:34:51 Good general issue. I mean, I am also in the user management.
17:34:57 Sig and We were having a bunch of discussions about things they're working on next steps, and there were things that kept coming up as well.
17:35:09 We should check with ra about that who's the po and I was like, we don't have a po for that, and I must have said we don't have a po for that about 5 times during the last user un meeting and
17:35:22 It reminds me just kind of in a general sense that we've got a lot of things hanging because we don't have po's for a lot of stuff, as Julie nots because are you feeling lonely
17:35:35 lately. so i'm wondering I know that there's a call out for new po's for a number of our areas, but i'm wondering if there's something we should do or can do to try and
17:35:53 prioritize all of the things that have been left hanging as people have left their institutions or left their po role.
17:36:03 I mean I know we've got all the prioritizations.
17:36:06 We've done all the voting and we've done all the rest of that stuff.
17:36:08 But i'm just trying to figure out how we get things to move forward that are hanging because there isn't a po for it.
17:36:21 I can maybe jump in with some comments, if not with them, with a perfect solution to that conundrum. I mean, I think.
17:36:29 Nevertheless, the one thing to keep in mind is that there is still a lot of backlog, because we have a discrepancy between the size of the backlog and the people who can actually develop it.
17:36:43 Right. So that's always gonna be there. and without going into the re prioritization, which I know there's a new, you know, process on that.
17:36:53 At least to Vega, who does a lot the circulation That's what I feel is very much happening.
17:36:58 Title level requests is has been made more complicated than expected.
17:37:02 Actual cost when it gets sticked into is also quite complicated, and will probably take several releases as well.
17:37:09 And so that's why things just take time necessary I I did host a session at Wolfcon about recruiting new po's, and if you go into stead there's not the recording but a couple
17:37:26 of links to places where you can get some resources. One aspect that we brought up is the idea of like this peel work that needs to be done.
17:37:42 May be being pragmatic with people's availability. You don't need to have someone who does the whole spectrum of po work, but rather people who focus on just be it either.
17:38:03 To you know. I think Laura daniels I think the last name is an is an example of they've called themselves she's called herself with Charlotte's a po assistance, and he's helping
17:38:13 Charlotte. documents a lot of things that go on in the inventory work as well, because just doing that, taking those even 5 h a week off of Charlotte means that she has more time to do more specialized
17:38:27 things that take much more, you know, onboarding and and skill and experience to to do
17:38:34 So a couple of ideas off the top of my head. Is that
17:38:40 You know you, you I think it is hard indeed to start writing stories fully from scratch.
17:38:47 If you've never done it before but I personally I'm. not a practitioner.
17:38:51 I could always use help, just like a second parabise, helping write some stories.
17:38:57 If the feature is sitting there and having help with talking through how what you know all the things to consider with stories, or the documenting the workarounds.
17:39:08 In the meantime we're helping with testing to take time off existing Po's, where we have to do you know the documentation work.
17:39:17 The testing workers as well like If I could already have a couple of extra hands to take off the the dozens of tests like doing bugs, because nobody is has claimed them. that's time.
17:39:28 I could spend writing stories, for example, in so that's first few steps. first possibilities potentially admittedly.
17:39:40 I can't promise that therefore, some of the things that are hanging will get done.
17:39:45 But I I like to think that you know I I Okay.
17:39:51 I have an area of of an area of ownership, so to speak.
17:39:55 I do try and take on a few other bits and bats like I know a couple of bugs that are in the wider circulation area.
17:40:03 If I see passengers on holiday your passengers are sick, or it's a really important thing.
17:40:08 We should you know, we should deal with it right now so it's. I wonder if there's a way we can broaden this idea of ownership of getting things moving forward and find the call compromise in a way
17:40:20 that we can split out the tests more across the community.
17:40:24 So that's ultimately at the end of the day hopefully more stories can get ritual.
17:40:31 The people who have experience in writing stories can focus on that.
17:40:35 So cool. it was a big rent. Yes, there are. I hope it makes sense.
17:40:44 So have you got any questions or reactions? It does, Julie.
17:40:45 Is there any kind of? and I probably should know. This, Lord knows.
17:40:50 Is, there are training so for people to write stories that's that's a difficult thing.
17:40:54 So I i'm what i'm gonna do and so I can't quite.
17:40:58 I can't multi-tasks quite as well this evening, and I can't remember what there's a place we've got a wiki page and i'll post it in the i'll post it in
17:41:05 the i'll post it in the sect and after it's like list of like the different skills areas that and like as a suggestion that people can take on and it needs working that I'd like to make you split the areas of
17:41:18 like owning the discussions to make sure you've thought of every possible, you know eventuality when you're suggesting a feature update as like pre-story work.
17:41:33 And then you've got story work and then the development work in the testing and documentation afterwards.
17:41:37 I feel that maybe writing stories is like the the pinnacle of being a Pr. maybe or even maybe the next slot is up when you're actually a lead, and you manage the backlog of a dev team.
17:41:50 But I feel like writing the stories is really the hardest thing, so it's not the first thing I delegate per se, but certainly off the top of my head.
17:41:58 I sometimes feel a first step before you've been like or even sorry.
17:42:03 One step back. Stories are also means of communicating with the deaf team, so it's telling them this is exactly what you need to do, and every single tiny step, like even when I did a little tiny feature of adding a token to
17:42:19 the notice that the notice templates it's like I feel I should really write also, like you know this is what happens when I select an option.
17:42:29 This is what happens when I click on saving close and all of these kind of things.
17:42:33 And if we go into new feature territory, really thinking through every single possible permutation of what could happen.
17:42:41 Currently and then discussing. Okay, here, I don't know here is A.
17:42:44 Is a conflict. How do we solve this conflict in?
17:42:47 If I could have that already ready, even this just discussions before I start writing the stories is already a big like a big help, I would say so.
17:42:59 Maybe that's one way. of doing it like it's like owning the content of the stories, even though you haven't quite written them in detail, because that's some things you got to some things to think about, because they're also
17:43:11 not just a place for us to document our conversations, but also a communication means that makes sense how we can move that forward.
17:43:27 I mean all of the other sigs that i'm aware of, have an overarching po hmm right.
17:43:34 There is A. a legendo for each other.
17:43:35 Sig. we have not had one since Kate, because, in addition to being believed Po for the project, she was lead Po for alright and I am not dising those of you who are our po now you have been do you have collectively you
17:43:55 and cheryl and brooks and everybody else have been doing yeoman's work, and you know applause and appreciation all over the place. I feel like you've been left in a little bit of a lurch.
17:44:08 You know, when Kate left and Emma left and people have retired, and people have moved on, and I I just feel like we can't even advance the things that are I mean I know there's backlog But we can't get
17:44:22 things queued up that are on our list because there isn't any better to do that.
17:44:29 And I just I I am happy to help However, I can Julie. and if you want really to teach us what you need i'm sure i'm not the only one, but I will bet that girl who is another
17:44:41 Po has her hand no and our a po who's responsible for all of resource access, which covers a lot of ground.
17:44:54 It's gonna be have to be somebody who's full time, and who's hired for that purpose?
17:45:00 I don't think that unless an institution could give up somebody basically full time that trying to get that person.
17:45:15 It's just too much I I great for sure also the question is, how do we advocate for that?
17:45:21 Well, I you know it. Somebody has to pay for it, and you
17:45:31 You know, increase the amount of money in various institutions, are putting into polio.
17:45:43 Do you find a corporate sponsor? right now?
17:45:47 The project seems to be treated as if it's more complete than it is in my mind that it's it's, you know.
17:45:58 Yes, a great deal has been accomplished but there's a great deal left to do, and it's it's it's too much for part time.
17:46:09 People I think I i'm not arguing with you in any way, shape or form.
17:46:14 I mean Ebsco funded Kate in her role as lead Po, and as part of that she took on lead. R.
17:46:21 A
17:46:28 Let me just said, Is this a question for Sharon to try and take to the leadership
17:46:38 The leadership of your institution. yeah folio it was it was it was it was being a bit cheeky there.
17:46:53 Because the the the the councils know as Well, and it's like often be brought up in the in the product Council, and it' okay, it's it's the same cool.
17:46:57 But I guess we keep on repeating it, and hopefully somebody will get so bored of hearing it that they will volunteer some funds or some people.
17:47:07 I mean there are other there should be more money put into developers, too.
17:47:10 I mean it's it's not a simple no I and i'm not even trying to imply that it is what i'm saying is that I feel like because of our because of ours situation visa vpos
17:47:28 we're we're losing the I mean we had very strong advocacy.
17:47:32 Once upon a time. and as people have dropped out and not been replaced, and and for many, many reasons, i'm not blaming anybody for that, I think we've lost a lot of our ability to addocate for our
17:47:46 needs, and when i'm listening to talking about minutia I mean absolute manuscript, I mean and we make more use of Ums product than any other. so it's not like I don't want them to have development but when i'm listening to
17:48:01 them talking about minutia, and know that we have major components that are either not fully developed or not even begun.
17:48:13 It makes me question that wait, and where the resources are calling
17:48:24 I have a random question. for the po's on here do you think that it would be possible for Sig to become a product owner of a feature.
17:48:38 It's it's I was tell me you read my mind I was like I.
17:48:44 I wrote, you know. teach us what you know, and and one step back.
17:48:47 I feel that in any case, like I know there's been talk of like an onboarding system, I I I prefer the idea of a mentorship rather as in like, you know you it's just easier to show how it's
17:49:02 done, and in any case everybody has their own style of doing things, of thinking about things.
17:49:07 So I feel one onboarding way to rule them. all is not not necessarily the best way I was thinking. I i'd also like to explore this idea, and generally when you said teach us what you need is going to say if you can
17:49:22 suggest me one another feature out. there. that you said like we'd really want this to move forward, and we feel that a lack of Po is not getting us to move forward.
17:49:31 Maybe that's an example we could use to explore that question of yours, Tom.
17:49:38 How can the 6 support moving this forward, even if it is so to speak it in a negative, not negative as in bad, but negative as in like?
17:49:49 You're not actually contributing to the feature per se but it's rather you doing everything else around it like documentation.
17:49:59 Thinking through the scenarios testing. so the Apo has time to do the the new show around that particular feature.
17:50:13 Yeah. and that's kind of what is wondering is like, I know one thing that keeps coming up is like the 3 statuses like if this sake took on that which a lot of the work has already kind of been done
17:50:19 and starts working through it from top to bottom, thinking out all the scenarios, even working on the mockups, getting everything lined up, that it would be ready to go to the developers.
17:50:31 And then we, as a group, say, Okay, when this goes into a rancher, you we will split up and test it as a group.
17:50:39 So you have like 30 hands in on this. I realize I can also get really messy, and you probably still need one person kind of coordinating it a little bit.
17:50:50 But it might be a nice pattern to try out and that might be successful.
17:50:57 And then you're not asking another institution I need a staff I need one of your staff members.
17:51:03 I can do 10 h a week just to work on this one thing.
17:51:08 Got a 100. I was gonna say, Well, we've had subgroups before I mean, I think 30 people may be too many cooks in the kitchen, but a subgroup of 5 or 6 might be enough to actually
17:51:22 accomplish the level of work. Julie's talking about without getting in in our own way.
17:51:30 So maybe, you know, because we haven't really touched 3 part item states: since Emma left and the initial design of the way resource access worked in folio was based on the idea that that would exist.
17:51:48 So those of you who are live i'm sure are feeling the lack, and I know that i'm dreading the lac
17:51:57 So my question would be, and this is for the people who already Po's.
17:52:02 Would we be better off starting with something smaller and less involved to learn how to do this?
17:52:11 You know, creating our apo subgroup made up of people who were willing to act as a partial Po as a collective and start with something small, so we can learn it.
17:52:27 Learn the process, and then move on with with the goal of moving on to three-part United States
17:52:35 I mean. Does that sound like a plan? As I say, what other things are kind of out there that you think could be picked up?
17:52:45 Do you Have an example off the top of my head I Don't i'm trying to think of something small and everything I come to is pretty big.
17:52:53 What have you got Cheryl got her hand up and you've got an idea.
17:52:55 Wait. Julie has an idea. I was gonna say I have been in in the meantime, just as a apparently we're supposed to wrap up like the content and the stories and everything.
17:53:08 Phone. Is it all cute already? by by the eighteenth of October?
17:53:12 I've had do we want to try it on one of my features.
17:53:17 I've had the feature and I know it's maybe not the most important one.
17:53:20 But at the sending the notices for actual cost with my list, since forever. and i'm slowly getting better cause I've managed to like really learn how to write stories with the token features that I've done
17:53:36 But the honest truth is that i'm like sat there in front of my screen and i'm like, and then the gazillion scenarios goes through my head like what could happen and what I need to think of and then I get
17:53:47 scared. and then I remember that it's gonna take several weeks before actual costed even there, and notices come afterwards.
17:53:54 So I still have time but do we want to maybe try that and that's a good example, because I no it's fairly well, even though I haven't gone through all the details yet.
17:54:03 And that's maybe a good way of going through the life cycle of the feature.
17:54:07 So i'd say that or if we go back and look at the things that are on our list that don't have a po, and see if there's something smaller than 3 port I didn't say either way but someone who
17:54:21 doesn't own them, whose toes it depends on what the easiest way to teach us is, and who we get as volunteers.
17:54:30 Yeah one thing that well, I think of it because it's come up recently, and I don't know how and it it really creates problems.
17:54:42 Is that When an item is recalled it really should go on a new notice.
17:54:52 Careful. And what happens right now is the dates change But the notice schedule doesn't change which causes multiple like occasionally multiple courtesy notices to go out that you know they they get basically they can get scheduled in
17:55:12 the past and Then they start coming out it's from a foreground point of view.
17:55:25 I'm not sure how big a deal it is it is a a change that would have to be made, and I don't know if that's a big enough problem for enough people to work on another problem.
17:55:40 That is, I consider a big problem is that the the age to lost notices get treated like see in fine notices, because they do include fees and fines.
17:56:01 But they still cannot be sent out as multiples, and that seems to be a big problem.
17:56:10 Anyway. just a couple of ideas. sure there is smaller things there, and I kind of wonder, and not to step on your toes truly, because I know you're doing a lot of stuff with notices.
17:56:26 Is I kind of wonder, with notices is that there's a lot of different things that keep coming up.
17:56:33 If and this might actually be a good topic for a subgroup to tackle is to look at the notice system as a whole, and not to individual pieces of it.
17:56:42 And really kind of figure out, throw constant, throw everything out and say, What do people need to do?
17:56:50 See what the system does now, and see where we can kind of back fill in what people needed to do, because have one lines.
17:56:58 And this came up during the presentation of what I did was what would you like?
17:57:02 And i'm a one of the things I thought Oh, wait If there was a token in circ rules for circulation points.
17:57:08 You could then add notice packages for individual circulation points, and maybe that would solve a bunch of problems.
17:57:14 So yeah, maybe that could be something we could tackle, because there is all these little things that keep popping up
17:57:25 Oh, and then we get the covid so the the the typical or the usual conversation of like How much do we spend in reoccurring versus fixing currents issue? and I also don't have access to that I
17:57:38 what I was thinking first off is admittedly I have
17:57:42 I have a page where I put my notes for my backlog.
17:57:44 And one thing is what I was personally hoping to achieve with thinking how to deal with the notices for actual cost was that i'd get a set of like mental ways of thinking about how not notices currently work and then I could like
17:58:01 copy or adapt for all the missing notices that we have at the moment.
17:58:06 Certainly it's a step before where you're at Thomas where it's like not the inventing how you know this is.
17:58:13 Go work, but at least trying to figure out the framework That's a framework or decaying framework, so to speak.
17:58:22 But then you might be copied as in when necessary. for I cool the missing notices like even like I think when I think in the loan history or the keep by all these buttons.
17:58:32 Where you'd think if I click on that i'd hope a notice gets sense, and it doesn't get sense.
17:58:37 But i'm also looking at the time should we discuss this further on slack or on thursday, I, before answering that question, I would say i'd be ready to talk through the life cycle of the feature which
17:58:55 then highlights what people can work on next Monday.
17:58:59 I can use any feature you'd like to be honest as long as it's within the circ area.
17:59:06 To have that conversation on so feel free. to advocate for your feature, I guess, on slack, but also feel free to keep on talking about it.
17:59:14 On Thursday I won't be there but all this is the recording.
17:59:19 Okay, So so I would mention on slack so the people who aren't at this meeting are aware that it's coming.
17:59:26 Cornelia, and then we can go through the life cycle on Monday next week with Julie and see who volunteers for a subgroup.
17:59:37 Yes, this is, say what would be a good one is the one that you mentioned earlier.
17:59:41 Julie the extra columns in the request queue.
17:59:46 Or do you think that might be too early in the sorry?
17:59:50 I gotta go that's that's a good I I don't know at the moment clearly resonating this, and i'd really wouldn't want to take it away from her i'd be either use if
18:00:04 i'm gonna talk through it either a feature that's mine, or a feature that has no owner at the moment keeping it fake.
18:00:18 Okay, Well, then, should be posted but i'm also fairly flexible.
18:00:24 I I know more or less what i'd wanna say anyway, so I can deal with whichever feature comes by way.
18:00:29 I nearly see it, and provocatively that the the hazier the feature, and then we have a title and 3 lines, but nothing else the better, because then we can really start from scratch.
18:00:40 And and so for every aspect
18:00:48 Yeah. Okay, then, thank you for the conversation. Thanks to you for for hosting spots today.